User talk:MrN9000

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{{Q|Shut up and edit an article.|{{U|Mordillo}}}}
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{{Q|I have to be careful what I say so as not to advertise the new wiki. At any rate, in January of 2013, the then-current userbase of this wiki made a decision to "fork" to our own independent domain and host, which I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link here or not. We did this for various reasons, which can all be read about in a lot of forums and things. I'll probably link those forums here later when I can be arsed to. For the time being, I just want to express that most of my efforts toward Uncyclopedia in the future will be going into the "forked" version, which I like to call the "real" version, for lack of a better term. I still intend to check my talk page on this, the Wikia version, just in case someone might stumble upon it and ask me a question about something or whatever. I intend to stick around here long enough to at least attempt to help smooth the transition of this version into the eventual new community, if one does in fact come around, and then if things take off here I can rest a little easier knowing that things are being taken care of. Or, if things don't take off here, I can rest a little easier knowing that I can just assume people will start coming to the new version of Uncyclopedia instead, and I won't have to worry too much about people coming here and getting the wrong idea of the wiki if it turns into a vandal-magnet.
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But seriously, check the [http://en.uncyclopedia.co new version] out. If you want to.|{{U|MrN9000}} on having copied that from {{U|RAHB}}}}
 
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==You're an asshole==
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==You're back==
You just constantly ban new users for months on end for doing the same thing you and other admins do all the time and play favorites like shit.
 
 
==Sometimes you read something that makes you realise why you stay here...==
 
And that was your moon article, my friend.
 
 
Also, if you aren't too busy, can you please get back onto [[Moving the goalposts]] (guess that wasn't the exact title, shrug). Your style is so refined and pleasant to read. I mean, there are so few other places on the net you can find such subtle wit, most of it is just crass uhrm.. shite.. rammed down your throat with vigor. --[[User:Nikau|Nikau]] ([[User talk:Nikau|talk]]) 17:02, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Thanks. Glad you liked [[UnScripts:Who built the moon]]. I have been planning that one for a while. I even had to nominate it on Saturday the 14th (the day after) just to make sure all the stars lined up right. <small>I'm joking (obviously)</small>. [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Moving_the_goal_posts?diff=prev&oldid=2539556 Moving the goal posts] was the fist article I wrote/created at Uncyc. :-) As for style, I ''try'' to not have one, although obviously I do. Personally I appreciate lots of different styles such as [[Data Protection Act]] which (honestly) had me in stitches laughing more than any other article on Uncyc for years...
 
:If you are looking for refined and pleasant to read I suggest you check out everything written, and all the edits made by {{User|Hardwick Fundlebuggy}} {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>20:45, Apr 17</small></small>
 
::...especially [[Bouncy Castle]], for my taste, although there are many many others. Say, MrN, Nikau has been around quite a while, although not necessarily active the whole while. Also, he's an [[1969 24 Hours of Le Mans|awesome writer]]. You two should get acquainted.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120417213919}}
 
:::We are old tradesman [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Tradesmen?diff=next&oldid=3736462 going back] almost to Genesis. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>17:18, Apr 18</small></small>
 
 
== Sometimes you read something that makes you realise why you stay here… ==
 
 
That wasn't it. <!-- Only had a chance for a skim so far. Very cool. -->{{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|12:19 18 Apr}}
 
:I think [[Giant Jew Band|this is the one that still keeps you here]]. For me its [[User:PuppyOnTheRadio/YOUR MOTHER SUCKS COCKS IN HELL MOTHERFUCKER!|this one]]. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 00:22 18-4-'12
 
::You guys actually ''read'' the articles? {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>17:19, Apr 18</small></small>
 
:::Occasionally I read something as I write it. I usually write blindfolded though. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|09:35 18 Apr}}
 
::::If I type "who built the moon" into google, Uncyclopedia is the number 2 hit. FU David Icke. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>10:35, Apr 19</small></small>
 
:::::It should be number one. A page worthy of the gods. Although on BING it's number nine. Surprises me lately that google and bing use such different criteria for searches, which changes on a daily basis. If you type in YOUR MOTHER SUCKS COCKS IN HELL MOTHERFUCKER! google will take you to Mother's Day, while Bing will only bring you to uncy if the saying is in quotes, and it does not even mention Puppy. We live in a world of wonder and mystery. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 10:47 19-4-'12
 
 
== RC checking ==
 
 
With the help of [[User:Bizzeebeever|Bizzeebeever]] I have the bones of an RC patrol script. What I have in mind would work most effectively with ungrouped changes but it'll do something like this:
 
:(diff | hist) . . Ron Paul‎; 22:33 . . (+133) . . Aleister in Chains (talk | contribs) (tweaks and tried to fix inconsistencies but failed.) [rollback]
 
:(diff | hist) . . India‎; 22:31 . . (+2) . . Funnybony (talk | contribs) (→British Raaj: ) [rollback]
 
:(<span style="background: lightgreen;">diff</span> | hist) . . Uncyclopedia:Ban Patrol‎; 22:30 . . (+64) . . Sycamore (talk | contribs) (+User:173.161.196.113) [rollback]
 
:(diff | hist) . . Uncyclopedia:QuickVFD‎; 22:29 . . (+25) . . Sycamore (talk | contribs) (+Chicago Blackhawks) [rollback]
 
:(<span style="background: lightgreen;">diff</span> | hist) . . Uncyclopedia:QuickVFD‎; 22:29 . . (+21) . . Sycamore (talk | contribs) (+Buffalo Sabres)
 
:(<span style="background: lightgreen;">diff</span> | hist) . . Amelia Earhart‎; 22:29 . . (+31) . . 72.35.60.2 (talk) (→Childhood: ) [rollback]
 
Where the highlighted "diff" is those that have been checked. I was also thinking of something along the lines of a double-check system as well (so we could have yellow for one check and green for the other) but I'm half hearted about it as it takes a fair amount of coding for something that we may not use. To say that something has been checked I'd add a tab to "diff" pages (like the standard edit/move/watch tabs for instance) so that those that aren't checked you can check quickly by clicking the unhighlighted links, and then clicking the "check" tab when done. (I usually use dif pages for checking recent changes myself, and I assume that most editors checking these would.)
 
 
By protecting a page as "auto confirmed" we can reduce the number of people who can patrol recent changes. I haven't yet worked out a way to limit it any further than that.
 
 
What are your thoughts so far? Oh, and is MrN9001 around for the USP delivery? {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|12:44 19 Apr}}
 
:Hea dude. I kinda understand what you are talking about, but I'm not sure how you are suggesting it would actually work. Personally I check recent changes with a combination of grouped and non-grouped changes and mostly check diff pages. If we could get something like this working which actually did work then it would be awesome. I'm not totally sure that this kinda approach is the right way, as maybe all we need is to change the {{tl|BPC}} template, or maybe have a new similar one which allows more text input, but you may well be onto something. How would we control ''who'' had the extra tab? All the rollbackers maybe? Also... Something like this is going to be ''very'' controversial to get accepted by the wider community. Not saying don't try... Just going to be tricky! {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>16:24, Apr 19</small></small>
 
 
Also...
 
 
==We Need More Bots!==
 
If you fancy getting yourself a bot MrN9001 runs on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser this]. It's actually not that hard to download, setup and figure out. Anyone who is able to do that has probably got enough understanding about things to run a bot... There is an sysop protected page somewhere which needs to be changed to allow new bots to actually make changes, but anyone can get AWB running. It's really not that tricky. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>16:24, Apr 19</small></small>
 
:I'm working on a slightly different type of bot at the moment, based upon the stuff I've been doing with BB above. Problem with AWB is that it sits on a single computer, whereas my script bot should go wherever I can log on. Once I have it running I'll share the details around to a few select individuals who have nice hair. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|12:41 20 Apr}}
 
 
==UnSignpost 19th April 2012==
 
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120419}}
 
{{User:MrN9001/sig}} <small><small>14:51, Apr 19</small></small>
 
 
==Ron Pawed by Pirat==
 
Looks like the page you and I were dragged into will be featured at some point. I checked the history and lo and behold, Jocke Pirat did most of the reshaping and rewrite which was the core of any good stuff we worked on. It's an honor to be associated with you two. And this is the puurrrfect chance to nom Jocke Pirat for WotM in May (since he'd have a 1/2 feature in April) and ''finally'' fight and claw for him to get his place in the hall of shemed. (I looked to see if any of his non-featured are good enough for feature, can't find one but haven't looked at them all) Shining a light of Jocke P. may be one of the best things to come from the article on this boring politician and do-gooder (my motto is "Never do good before they don't do it to you") [[user:Aleister|'''Al''']] 10:51 20-4-'12
 
:Nice. It came out OK I think. Cool, I had looked through the history a bit, and had not noticed the Jocke P's edits but if you think he's due a 1/2 credit then I'm sure he is. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>16:05, Apr 20</small></small>
 
::Yes, check it out, he did a total rewrite and then claimed it as "his" article. Oh, if you are online, please check out [[User talk:Funnybony]], last edits under Help, he's got a vandal problem that's persisting when I just looked. Thankis. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 16:16 20-4-'12
 
:::Cool. I'm not really "around" today, but I protected that page. Have fun. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>16:53, Apr 20</small></small>
 
 
==Alo alo==
 
So, eh, me 'n' Pup got a patrol script working. It's [[User:Bizzeebeever/scripts/patrol.js|here]]. To try it out yourself, include this line -
 
 
<code>importScript( "User:Bizzeebeever/scripts/patrol.js" )</code>
 
   
- in either your uncyclopedia.js file or your monobook.js file (depending on which skin you use). Granted, mediawiki *has* a function for patrolling pages, but we would have to ask wikia to activate it, and then we would have to ask them to change our user groups so that rollbackers could use it.
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Its good to see that you are still alive. --{{User:Mnbvcxz/sig5}} 15:27, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
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:Hea dude. Yep. Kinda anyway. At the moment I'm jumping between the two sites a bit. Such a shame that apparently some users have fallen out with each other to the extent that even now when the community has the ability to be non profit, some users still choose to stay with a profit based host.
   
My version is a bit rough around the edges, and every time you mark a page, the edit to the control page shows up on [[Special:RecentChanges]], but I hope to get that solved soonly. Ah me so hawny. Me love you long time.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120422031158}}
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:Obviously some dicks have been being particularly so... I hope there is some way to sort this mess out. IMO As things stand now, it's not good for Uncyclopedia. I would much prefer if e veryone was together. :( {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>11:05, Feb 11</small></small>
:Nice! Replied on your talkpage. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>12:05, Apr 22</small></small>
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::Ah, but you must have missed Mn-Z's two amazing healing posts on the forum:A suggestion, his two new sections near the bottom. Masterpieces of perception and a calming of the [[wikipedia:Ethel Waters|waters]]. Maybe you should go forum hopping, and check out the one on the vote on the new warning label, but that's near the bottom too. And I don't know if wikia is making any money off of us, they're just hosting and trying to cope with having us around, so calling it a profit maker in regards to uncy is giving the devil its due without the devil earning it. Remember our work on Gandhi? Good times. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 11:19 11-19 1919
::Also, hate to bug you again, but could you have a gander at [[Emile_Heskey|this puddle of spooge]]? [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Emile_Heskey?oldid=3899439 This version] seems like it might be the last decent one before a bunch of IPs started using it as a glory hole, but I know nothing of English-rools football.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120422170441}}
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:::Thanks dude, I will look around more. One thing I DO know... WIKIA MAKES / WANTS TO MAKE MONEY OUT OF UNCYCLOPEDIA.
:::Hea dude. I took a look at it. Oddly enough a mate of mine who I'm getting into Uncyc came over on the weekend and actually mentioned that he had read this article and found it really funny. I'm not really a fan myself, but will clean it up a bit more, and leave it at that. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>11:38, Apr 23</small></small>
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:::Although... Apparently ... "Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony". I think I'm going to make a cup of tea... :) {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>11:32, Feb 11</small></small>
::::Also, that patrol script is mostly finished, for now anyway. It regulates the size of the control file now -- when the file reaches 20kB, it resets it to 4kB. And I'm not sure it will flood RC much -- IP edits tend to be either crap (which is reverted) or work on new pages (which are {{tl|Fix}}'d or {{tl|ICU}}'d anyway). Although...yeah, I guess there are quite a few edits by new users sometimes...hmm...well, at any rate, still working on how to prevent it from showing up on RC. Cheers, anyway.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120423124249}}
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::::I have doubts about the nfp aspect of the fork. I one worked for an nfp organisation that was designed to run fundraisers for other nfp organisations. I left there when I discovered that one of their projects didn't work out as well as they hoped, and the organisation they were raising money for ''lost $45,000'' as a result. Since then I've been suspect of organisations that won't disclose their finances but claim nfp status. I've asked numerous times, and been met with dead silence every time I've asked. Add to that the vanity aspect of the press release, I'm suspect.
:::::Dude, what you are doing is awesome. However this one is not in the bag yet... We still have some problems to sort out... The change file can't show up in RC, and what is going to stop sophisticated vandals changing that page? If it's not shown on RC who would notice if they did? It's probably possible for a sysop to change the site scripts to not show edits to a particular page (I don't know how to do it, but I suspect it's possible). It may also be possible to restrict edits to a page based on group membership (rollback I guess) but again I don't know how to do that if it can be done. Also... Be ready to field questions about ''why'' this is a good idea and understand the pros/cons of implementing something like this. I suspect that not everyone will agree that we actually want something like this, so there might be some opposition. I do totally think this ''could'' work very well and be very useful, but we need to iron out all the issues first. With all the above bullshit bullshitted... It is ''awesome''. ;) {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>12:57, Apr 23</small></small>
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::::Yes - I'll look a gift horse in the mouth when it means that otherwise I have to surrender the steed that I know and - while I don't trust it - I know how it works. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|11:37 11 Feb}}
::::::I agree. The fact that it shows on RC is the major con of the whole shemozzle. Beyond that, though, there is no reason as to why it can't be considered as a useful tool, even if it is only half a dozen of us using it. The other thought I had is that it adds the page once a single page has been checked - is there a way to add the page details to a cookie or something similar and add it once you've checked a dozen or so? {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|01:55 23 Apr}}
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:::::It was a good "feel good" "press release (air quote)" and had nice sentiment and hope for the future. The problem was it wasn't a press release. I offered to help them with the press release, to write and edit it, because I used to do lots of press releases. They weren't interested, and when it was sent out (if it was sent out in a press release form) it attracted no press, as I suspected it wouldn't once I saw it. So yes, the people "running" it, in some respects, don't know what they're doing, and in others are doing a very good job so far. But as the sage Msn-Bc might have said, can't we all just get along, and everyone wash both hands and not leave a pile of dirt in between the fingers? [[user:Aleister|'''Al''']] same day
:::::::If anything like this is going to start being actually used (by anyone) it should be done via a VD forum after lots of community discussion. Lots of people will want their say about this... {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>14:01, Apr 23</small></small>
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::::::It was a terrible press release, because there's no way known any self respecting journal would print it. And it's symptomatic of my concerns. For the last month we have had the bulk of the community working on the content warning. We've discussed, honed, tweaked and churned it into something worthwhile as a “front page” of the site. That press release was written by one person - or maybe two - and discarded any community input, and sent out as representative of a community. Personally I like to think I know what is good for the community, but I'm not arrogant enough to say that I represent the whole, and I accept what the community decides on when we go to a vote. I don't think any individual - or group of elite - can represent the community properly when huge decisions and movements happen outside of scrutiny. I don't even like talking on IRC because there's no accountability. And without knowing the inner workings I'm left to surmise, and I cannot see any way that the fork can be financially self-supporting without going down a financially focused path.
::::::::# Protect that page so only rollbackers+ can edit it. Boom, vandals can't touch it. Anyway, it's not like it has a mission-critical function.
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::::::Without respecting the members of the community, and with an inner sanctum making arbitrary decisions that affect the whole, it cannot work as a wiki. And the structure of it resembles too closely the structure of another comedy wiki that eventually got sold to a commercial interest and destroyed. And by dividing the community we had, the two separate halves are no way near the strength of the whole. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|12:44 11 Feb}}
::::::::# I don't think a sysop can change site settings to prevent a page's edits from showing up on RC. Sannse could probably do it, but if we're going to ask for ''that'', we might as well just ask for her to turn on the patrol extension and allow rollbackers to use it.
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:::::::I second Puppy. As I've said in [[Forum:A suggestion#It isn't theirs|the Forum]] and elsewhere: If you think Profit is no basis for creative writing, wait until you see how Loss works. (Would you guys mind if I renamed that Forum from "A suggestion"? We might want to find it some day.) {{User:SPIKE/signature}}<small>13:04 11-Feb-13</small>
::::::::# Pros: it works. Cons: it shows up on RC; it's a clumsy workaround to take the place of something that already exists, but isn't turned on. That's about it.
 
::::::::# I wasn't thinking of forcing it to be used site-wide. We've got a few regular RC patrollers like Pup, Frosty, Sycamore, Xamralco, Aleister, and Mattsnow, and those are the folks whose lives would be made easier. I figured we'd just show up at their houses in the middle of the night and make 'em an offer they couldn't refuse: "Da boss says, 'use the script or get kneecapped.'" If that fails, we [[The Godfather|send 'em a bunch of haddock wrapped in newspaper]], or {{fakelink|wire their toilets to explode|Lethal Weapon}}. [[BOOM|Boom]], message sent.
 
::::::::# @pup: cookies are a fine idea, but what if you mark N pages, where N is < 12? I can implement that pretty easily, but how should the script know when you want to commit your marks?
 
::::::::Anyway, I'm still looking into other options, like <del>using a bot to do the actual edits, or</del> using an off-site server to store our mark "database". <del>On that tack: MrN, how do you "poke" a bot, like, for instance, fnoodle? I'd ask the Thumper of Skulls, but he seems busy playing online Lego or something.</del> Never mind, got my answer.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120423204810}}
 
:::::::::That message box - yes/no box "You have marked ''x'' pages. Would you like to commit them?" or something like that. If it's less than 5 it's probably not worth asking/committing. If it's more than 10 it's probably worth auto committing. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|10:53 23 Apr}}
 
::::::::::As for vandalism of the changes page - anyone who uses that script (as it currently is) would be seeing edits to it on RC. And rollbacker only protection is a major hassle. Auto confirmed is probably sufficient. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|10:58 23 Apr}}
 
:::::::::::How's it a hassle? I thought you just change the protection level, and in the field where it asks "for whom", you say "rollbacks". Do we want non-rollbacks using that script?{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120423231046}}
 
::::::::::::As far as I'm aware, protection levels are none, auto confirmed, and admin. adding rollback in would be a good idea overall, but hasn't been done yet. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|12:13 24 Apr}}
 
:::::::::::::Yep. Just 3 levels. Course we could always sysop protect the page... ;) As I said... This is not done yet. We might possibly need someone running an offsite "verification" server or something. Also... what would happen if... someone reverted vandalism, but did not have or click the tab? Lots to think about here, and as I said, I don't want anyone using this or anything like it "seriously" until it's got agreement from everyone else. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>01:16, Apr 24</small></small>
 
::::::::::::::It has kinks, definitely. The principle itself is good though, and worth working out the kinks prior to throwing it on VD and saying "Hey, this is what we've got. What'ya reckon?" I'm happy to have it as admin only checking, but of course that means it'd only be admins who would be able to take advantage of it and use it for checking, which would mean there's more work for admins to do - which I'm sure you need. Also having it open to autoconfirmed - it means when we have people like Tasmania come along he can start partying with it once he's learnt enough about the place. Yeah - it'll never be a perfect idea, because there's always an element of judgement in these things. But i we can reduce/remove it popping up in RC, then we have a winner. As BB says, if we go along and say "nah, that won't do" and undo/revert/ICU/Fix/Construction, then there's no need for check. If we add the further restriction of only adding once the total of "new" marks hits 5+ or 10 total, then we reduce the amount of amendments to a minimum. (For the sake of figures, let's assume one in three amendments need to be marked, and we only add once we've hit 5-10 marks - average 7.5 - then we have one amendment via the script when we hit around the 20-25ish mark. That's 4-5 every hundred, or 20-25 every 500 recent changes. It's a signifiant percentage, but not a terrible one.) {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|01:51 24 Apr}}
 
::::::::::It is a good concept. Per the bit about ''"only add once we've hit 5-10 marks "'' I think a lot of times it would end up getting clicked a lot more often than that if available like that. It would also need to be able to handle grouped recent changes. If a change has been checked and reverted... Who checks the revert? who will check the checker? who guards the guards? and who will check the checker who checks the checker? and... who will check the checker who checks the checker who checked that checker? and? Keith Chegwin probably has the answers but he is ''not'' telling us. The bastard. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>02:36, Apr 24</small></small>
 
::As for grouped changes - it's half there. It'll highlight the last diff checked (assuming BB made the change we were chatting about) when you expand it. If the last diff was the last change, it'll highlight that. Was thinking about a double check system (yellow first check, green the second) but it was an aside. If we need to it can be done, but I figured the K.I.S.S principle at first. (As in ''Keep it simple'' not ''Party every day''.) {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|05:21 24 Apr}}
 
:::Never mind. Look at [[Forum:ATTENTION: This vote will give you longer-lasting erections AND bigger boobs!]] {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|09:11 24 Apr}}
 
   
==Thanks for the "hats off"==
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Guys... I don't give a
...but you should really give Pup his props, too. It was his idea in the first place; he just didn't know there was such a thing as patrolling already built in.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120425221624}}
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[[Image:Image-George M Bush.jpg|center|thumb|250px|...about the press release...]]
:Agreed, but personally I [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum%3AA_thread_on_us_I_put_up_at_Above_Top_Secret&action=historysubmit&diff=5481544&oldid=5481335 blame] {{U|Simsilikesims}} the most. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>22:33, Apr 25</small></small>
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In time Google, and the internet WILL divert to wherever the CABAL is. Yes. There is a <small>(one) </small> CABAL. It is... Wait. I lied. There is no Cabal. Obviously. However, Uncyclopedia IS wherever that thing is. Should it exist. Which it does not. But if it did, that is what would define Uncyclopedia. ...
::Vit'''r'''amin C? {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|10:59 25 Apr}}
 
:::It's the vitamin D that people don't get enough of you know. That's cos it's made in the skin from the sun. Anyway, where did I put my slippers? In addition, we need a "big forum and such" about "The big Feature Cleanup" where we list all the FA articles at the top, and then when people have correctly checked that each article is not vandalised, and that the edits are good or merged or whatever then it's moved down to another list for the completed ones (allowing the user who did it to whore their sig or user Id in some appropriate way so as to ensure that everyone else knows who was actually doing something useful). Or something similar. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>23:21, Apr 25</small></small>
 
::::Yay forums.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120425234946}}
 
:::::Good idea, but maybe we should have a forum to see if there are too many forums first. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|01:25 26 Apr}}
 
   
== The Unsignpost ==
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[[Image:MrN9000SouthPark.JPG|150px|center]]
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...if I know you lot <small>(and I do a little) </small> I bet this is really <small>(mostly)</small> about people being [[Penis|dicks]]. Specifically people being dicks to other people. Often causing those people to be dicks themselves, which is then great for the person who was a dick to start with because now everyone is being a dick so they don't get the blame.
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So...
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[[File:Wallace_in_wrong_trousers.jpg|thumb|center|500px|What should we do?]]
   
It's [[Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120426|done]]. Could you please have MrN9001 drop it off. Thanks. --{{User:Xamralco/sig}} 00:13, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
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As it stands.... The
:Yes. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:44, Apr 26</small></small>
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[[File:Status quo 2005.jpg|thumb|center|500px|Is not great.]]
==UnSignpost Apr 26th 2012==
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So...
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120426}}
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[[Image:You go first down the hole!.JPG|thumb|center|500px|We need to look for the whole again.]]
{{User:MrN9001/sig}} <small><small>00:48, Apr 26</small></small>
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Because apparently people are being dicks on Uncyclopedia.
   
== mark as patrolled ==
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[[Image:Penisland.jpg|thumb|center|250px|Who would have thought it?]]
  +
What shall we do?
   
Yes, I did see a "mark as patrolled" button. I'm sure exactly of how it works, I guess it's some type of feature that is supposed to show that an edit that a non-autoconfirmed user and/or IP did was reviewed and is deemed to be alright. I may be wrong, I'm not sure. {{User:Tasmania/SIG}} 22:21, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
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[[Image:Future quo.jpg|thumb|center|500px|Look what will happen to the Status Quo!]]
:Cool. Yea, we just turned it on apparently. Like you said I think the way it works is that if someone has "[http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Recent_changes_patrol patrolled]" or checked the diff (or new page) and done whatever is needed then they can click the patrolled button and then the red ! does not show up in RC. That way everyone else will know which pages have been checked so we don't need to check them again. If you use rollback it automatically clears the red ! but, if you use undo (which is obviously better as it allows us to say why it's a bad edit) then it does not automatically mark it as patrolled. I think you have to click it before. Anyway, I guess I'm also saying go ahead and start clicking em if you want to! I'm hoping that others watching RC will do the same, and others are starting to do it already, so it should be good. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>22:34, Apr 26</small></small>
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How can we prevent this? {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>13:35, Feb 11</small></small>
::Yesterday I was clicking mark as patrolled as "open in new tab" and then undoing on the original tab. (Someone didn't agree with me and started undoing my undos. He's a meanie!) <!-- And I see the point - just don't agree, but will accept it. -->{{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|11:58 26 Apr}}
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:Just for that...
:::Nothing wrong with undoing undos! So long as the undooer is not undone by the undoing. It's the doing of the doing that's making the doing doing the thing which is important. That and ''you'' not checking page histories enough. :P Also, I have finally given up and started using google chrome. It is faster than Firefox for me. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:07, Apr 27</small></small>
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<center><youtube>XB383WkXcqE</youtube></center>
::::The annoying red [[pnfvenf|!]] shows up on things like changes to user pages, VFD, and other weird places. It will probably put up a warning [[npncnhev|!!!!!]] at me for leaving you a note here. And I saw you gave Funnybony rollback, hahaahahaha, he's never used recent changes (although it could be good for his own article checks, he's got them all patroled on his user page like I do, all both of us have to do is hit Related changes. UFO's rule! They visit me nightly, and we fight on the lawn. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 00:13 27-4-'12
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:{{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|01:48 11 Feb}}
:::::We are going to have to put up with manually marking VFD and other similar edits if we want to get all the pages needing to be patrolled clicked and checked. That's got to be a good goal... I can't get rid of some of the ones where a new redirect is created though. If you go to your "my preferences" there is a thing about not showing patrolled edits on RC. If you do that it's possible to look back in RC for as far as the edits are patrolled up to 500 I think. Yea, Funnybony is no RC hound, but now his edits don't leave any [[npncnhev|!!!!!]] all over RC. ;) I would not want everyone to get rollback just based on that justification, but I think we are OK with Funnybony. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:26, Apr 27</small></small>
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::That proves nothing! I just found out that in 2011 Status Quo did something in collaboration with '''Cliff Richard'''. Don't say you have not been warned. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>13:55, Feb 11</small></small>
::::::@aleister: I can set up a script that will remove the "!" for user-space/user-page/user-talk-page edits as well as VFD and VFH pages, if you like.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120427010237}}
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:::That video was 2012. Which shows that the Status Quo has gone off the Cliff. Which brings me back to my earlier point… <!-- I should have been a politician. -->{{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|02:12 11 Feb}}
:::::::What I think we might end up wanting is a tab to automatically mark all unmarked pages. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>01:09, Apr 27</small></small>
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::::Your point was that Uncyclopedia is and will always be run by dicks? <!-- You would be a shit politician! You are even worse than me, and THAT is fucking saying something. --> {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>14:28, Feb 11</small></small>
::::::::All unmarked pages or all unmarked revisions of a particular page? And where was that redirect you were talking aboot? {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|01:32 27 Apr}}
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:::::We should hang a sign in the window saying “Under no management”. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|09:43 12 Feb}}
:::::::::That redirect I could not get appears to have disappeared. A tab to mark all the unmarked revisions of a particular page might be handy. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>01:48, Apr 27</small></small>
 
Wait!
 
(diff | hist) . . N! Steve jobs‎; 23:08 . . (+24) . . Ahadwick (talk | contribs | block) (←Redirected page to Steve Jobs)
 
   
That's the bugger! Also, if you have not tried it yet... Go into "my preferences" and "under the hood" and click " Hide patrolled edits in recent changes". It's great! You can ignore practically everyone! {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>01:54, Apr 27</small></small>
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== Common.css ==
[[File:Steve jobs.GIF|200px|right]]
 
:Sorted! {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|02:01 27 Apr}}
 
::Good Jobs! I blame Al Gore. He tricked me into not noticing that. Also google translate says your sig says "Knight On The puppy dishwasher" :D {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>02:04, Apr 27</small></small>
 
:::It would read more accurately as KnightPuppyOnTheDishwasher. ince Guildy's been gone a while I figured I'd take on Der Unwehr, but I don't want to take his title, so I looked for something like "busboy" as an alternative title. This was about the closest I could come up with. It's also why I've gone German with my sig. And damned long. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|02:41 27 Apr}}
 
:So... Rather than deleting spam userpages created to spam links to advertise commercial companies and products, should we not be keeping them, but slightly changing them somehow so as to piss off the company who was being advertised as much as possible. {{U|Aleister}} would know about this! Actually, it's not maybe not a good idea, cos of it actually taking up a user page and such, but still. I was tempted then. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>05:20, Apr 27</small></small>
 
::But that page is... It's why I saved [[proofread]] and made [[Scam letter]]. I love these badly translated English thingies. And Al did a brilliant job with that article created by spam IPs from that drinks place, but I'm saving that other one as it's just do bad it's poetic. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|08:52 27 Apr}}
 
:::I'm just thinking about how amusing it is that if the company in question protests in any way we can claim that we accepted their page, and that we are just improving it. Actually, as the author of the page they might then have QVFD privileges. Hmm. It would be funny if we could get Uncyc onto a blacklist of some kind which means that spammers avoid us. Considering what we do here on Uncyc we are in a position to do that in a way that most other websites are not. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>09:04, Apr 27</small></small>
 
::::A spammer blacklist? And I don't know if I'm ever going to do anything with stuff in my user space. It just sits there until I work out if I want to do anything. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|09:10 27 Apr}}
 
:::::A spammer blacklist would be blacklist ''for'' spammers. A list of sites which spammers would avoid spamming because the company who was paying them to spam did not want their name linked from that site. Clearly commercial spammers are now hitting wiki in a bigger way than they have b4. It never used to be like this... Back in the old days when I still remembered where my slippers were.. Oh, did I mention that I was in the war? Because if I did I was bullshitting you. I never was. Fuck that shit. Anyway, any page which is on this wiki is visible from the outside world, and so can get web links, and hits. The commercial spammers are spamming us for a good reason. They know/think it's worth it for the traffic it generates and the company who pays the bill likes it because people are also reading their advert. They are ''not'' used to people ''changing'' their spam pages. Normally most other sites would either not notice, or delete them. I see many possibilities for future amusement. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>09:21, Apr 27</small></small>
 
::::::I have a tendency to delete them as one of the reasons why wikis are so good for spammers is that they are easy as anything to edit, and a lot of inactive wikis have no-one around to check recent activity and so stuff gets ignored. Google algorithms, however, pick up that a reputable site is linking to the spammers site do the spammers site gets google credibility by association. How we ever became reputable according to google is beyond me, but I'm starting to get a little annoyed at external links that don't add funny to the site. Boone's Farm targeted us more than any other site except urban dictionary though, to the point where we became a top ten link for them. Changing that page was not just a good idea, it was our duty as netizens. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|09:31 27 Apr}}
 
:::::::Oh hell yes. We would not actually want to actually have any real external links to them on the page, as that would be noticed by the web bots, but so long as there are no links... then would google still kick us in the balls? {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>09:38, Apr 27</small></small>
 
::::::::Unlikely. If it was a recognised brand name then we might show high on searches for it. If it was more generic (like "registry cleaner") then it could relate to one of the [[nillion]] other products with a similar name. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|10:29 27 Apr}}
 
:::::::::Agreed. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>10:34, Apr 27</small></small>
 
   
==More silly ideas==
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Thank you for installing me as an Admin for the rendering of RecentChanges, though having to have my name in CAPITALS has always sufficed for me (as "Spike" has been taken by a non-contributor since 2006). But {{U|Simsilikesims}} was opped in the same vote and should suffer the same fate, misery liking company. {{User:SPIKE/signature}}<small>15:40 11-Feb-13</small>
I'm full of silly ideas today... Can {{tl|Exlinkto}} be made to automatically display the article's position on google? For example [[Boone's Farm]] is currently the number 5 link on Google as shown at the top of [[Talk:Boone's Farm]]. Now ''that'' would also be useful. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>12:25, Apr 27</small></small>
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:I'm not sure it worked actually. You are not showing up in '''bold''' on RC for me. Maybe something to so with SPIKE vs Spike? I don't know. Anyway, you know the place you need to edit now, so I guess I will leave it in your hands... {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>15:45, Feb 11</small></small>
:Probably not. Google search results differ with the location of the searcher or the server that it takes you to. Google also don't appreciate when you throw bots at their search engines either. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|12:48 27 Apr}}
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::Oh. Nope. Working now. You are bold. The hamster must have moved in the wheel... {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>15:47, Feb 11</small></small>
::I have no idea what you are suggesting. {{User:MrN9001/sig}} <small><small>12:54, Apr 27</small></small>
 
:::Like [[Wikipedia:Dwarf tossing|Dwarf tossing]], but more metallic. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|01:02 27 Apr}}
 
::::Dwarf Tossing makes [[Wikipedia:Wife carrying|Wife carrying]] appear rather pointless by comparison. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>13:05, Apr 27</small></small>
 
:::::Still both make more sense than [[Wikipedia:Cheese rolling|Cheese rolling]]. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|01:27 27 Apr}}
 
::::::They do that near me. It was banned last year for the first time for being too dangerous. Dudes been rolling down that hill after the cheese for thousands of years you know... {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>13:33, Apr 27</small></small>
 
   
== Thanks ==
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May have to do with clearing your browser cache (Ctrl-F5). Names of Admins have never been shown in bold on my PC; I run with a ton of local CSS, but the same is true when I switch it off. Could you describe exactly what comes up in boldface for you? PS--I saw to boldfacing Simsie. {{User:SPIKE/signature}}<small>21:29 11-Feb-13</small>
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:Just noticed your second reply there! Yea. Only on Recent Changes this applies to... Whenever I see the name of an admin on RC their name is in bold. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:19, Feb 12</small></small>
   
I really loved my biopic in this week's UnSignpost! Who wrote it? --{{User:Qzekrom/sig3}} 23:14, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
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Not I! I vaguely recall I disliked this effect and wrote CSS to disable it, but I can find no such thing either on Uncyclopedia or on my PC. {{User:SPIKE/signature}}<small>00:25 12-Feb-13</small>
:Not I. MrN9001 just delivered it. Check out [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120426?action=history this] to find your answers! {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>23:20, Apr 27</small></small>
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:You might be smoking something. Sometimes that can makes things appear bold, or blurry. Or you could log out... That would also work. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:33, Feb 12</small></small>
   
== Patrolling ==
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== Piri Reis ==
   
Either isn't being done or isn't being marked. You should probably poke people to keep a track on that. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|01:29 29 Apr}}
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I don't have the background to understand the sentence you added to [[Great Library of Alexandria]]--though your finale, that "obviously, no one takes them seriously," makes it sound like a big inside joke I am not in on. This would be okay as a photo caption, but without some links to us ignoramuses, it's not an improvement. {{User:SPIKE/signature}}<small>18:32 11-Feb-13</small>
:Cool. I will make a forum when I have the chance. I'm not really around at the moment... {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>17:15, May 1</small></small>
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:Why you are talking about "Inside jokes" I got no idea... Piri Reis made maps which were copies of older maps. Some of those maps would have been in the library at some point. The point is that those (very old) maps I speak of do actually exist, and they do actually (kinda) show what I suggested they do. I suspect I'm not the only person who would know that and appreciate it. If you know better remove it. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>18:49, Feb 11</small></small>
   
== Request to delete Part Maori Page ==
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Of course I don't know how many heads this will fly over. But I have now read about Piri Reis on Wikipedia and still don't get the joke; though in fairness, it was Aleister who set the randomness tone for this section. {{User:SPIKE/signature}}<small>21:29 11-Feb-13</small>
  +
:Random? Random you say? Have you ever baked a zebra? MrN, I saw you doing the feature run at the fork. Did you read my excellllent page about the guy who invented soap? Yes? And you say you hated it? Oh Jeez, this is horrible. It's on vfh here too. This is devestating. [[user:Aleister|'''Al''']] sigh
  +
::Me? Hea. That could have been any MrN9000 you saw over there. Just because I happen to be called MrN9000 here does not necessarily mean that (that) (slippery when wet) individual is the same as this individual. Wait. I actually have no idea even which wiki I'm typing into. This is getting [[Uncyclopedia|ridiculous]]. OK! OK! I will go read it! Also... Yes. 12. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:08, Feb 12</small></small>
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:RE Piri Reis. An article about the great library of Aleister would be random without mention of Piri Reis. I guess the "joke" is that the entire world is not bothered about the fact that a map has been found (which would have come from the library) which shows the coastline of a country (Antarctica) which was undiscovered at the time (found it 200 years later), and also under (and is still under) thousands of feet of ice. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:16, Feb 12</small></small>
   
--[[Special:Contributions/24.187.210.90|24.187.210.90]] 16:55, May 1, 2012 (UTC)According to your site's standards, racism and personal attacks are prohibited. So why is this page allowed to be published given that it a) links to a 'Nigger Job Application' and b) names Adam Rangiaho who is a real person and a poster on Topix.
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You see? you had only to explain it to me. {{User:SPIKE/signature}}<small>00:26 12-Feb-13</small>
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:I did? Oh, I did. ... You have all the makings of... Um... Yea. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:31, Feb 12</small></small>
   
There is also a reference to the intelligence of Maori, the highest of which is compared to a 'white' four year old. I get that this site is all about mocking, but this is moving in the direction of denegrating an entire people, and the message behind the IQ reference might be a joke, but given the context of the entire page, I fail to see how this could be interpreted as anything else but racist.
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==Edits to [[UnNews:Facebook introduces ‘Nookie’]]==
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Yo bro! You're always welcome & encouraged to join in. But don't forget to edit in a "For" on the voting. I'm glad we're working together again - hang in there, mate! BTW: This short vid is BETTER than going to a live gig: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myw8QLbuu5U Great LIVE Sound Quality]--{{User:Funnybony/sig}} <small><small>14:29, Feb 12</small></small>
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:Cool. I made a few more changes to [[UnNews:Facebook introduces ‘Nookie’]]. I might have missed the point with the bit about CIA-FEMA, and where I changed that you might want to put it back if I did it wrong. I think the last 3 paragraphs could do with a bit more of a chop back also as it's a bit rambling in places but I could not figure out what to remove. It's cool as it is though. :) Nice article Bro. I remember when this happened and I thought... Oh I should really go onto Uncyc to do an article about it... But you already had done an awesome job! {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>15:01, Feb 12</small></small>
   
This page isn't funny. It's beyond stupid. The Part Maori page was created by Topix user KKKeenAZ_new_name who makes frequent anti-Maori and racist comments against Maori on Topix, and is basically an outgrowth of racist commentary found on the NZ Topix site which has now spilled over into Uncyclopeadia.
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==Thanks for the Tweaks and Tickles==
   
This page should be taken down.
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Very much appreciate your assistance and adds in recent articles! Thanks!! --{{User:Romartus/sig2}} 07:16, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
:Could you show me where is says that racism and personal attacks are not allowed on Uncyclopedia? We have a [[UN:CBN]] policy which this page may be in violation of if the person in question is not a well known, and as Adam Rangiaho appears to fit into that criteria I will remove his name. I don't really have any strong feeling one way or the other on this page, but it's not really ''that'' funny. We have a page called [[VFD]] where anyone who has created an account and waited 4 days can nominate any page for deletion. If you want this page deleted, I suggest you do that. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>17:27, May 1</small></small>
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:Loved the idea behind the horse meat one. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:59, Feb 15</small></small>
   
--[[Special:Contributions/24.187.210.90|24.187.210.90]] 21:01, May 1, 2012 (UTC)I had already contacted someone at Uncyclopedia and I think what I quoted wasnt' a 'standard' but terms of use, specifically that users shold not:
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== This... ==
   
"Post or transmit any content that is obscene, pornographic, abusive, offensive, profane, or otherwise violates any law or right of any third party, or content that contains homophobia, ethnic slurs, religious intolerance, or encourages criminal conduct;"
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<code>I have to be careful what I say so as not to advertise the new wiki. At any rate, in January of 2013, the then-current user base of this wiki made a decision to "fork" to our own independent domain and host,,,</code>
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:Actually, they didn't. There was a forum started saying "We are moving" but no consent from the community sought. There was a vote back in February 2012 asking if we wanted to move, which resulted in an outstanding "maybe, but we need to have an alternative to move to." The creation of that alternative was done without any community discussion. The announcement of the "move" was made only a week or so prior to the "move" itself, and any feedback relating to it was shot down in flames by the instigators of those behind re-creating the content offsite. In short, the statement "the then current userbase" means that regular contributors not included in any of the decision making were considered not to be part of the userbase.
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<code>...which I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link here or not...</code>
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:Yes - but we ask that you at least be honest in regards to what you're actually linking to. And please don't start coming here to purely act as an advertisement for an alternative site.
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<code>...We did this for various reasons, which can all be read about in a lot of forums and things. I'll probably link those forums here later when I can be arsed to. For the time being, I just want to express that most of my efforts toward Uncyclopedia in the future will be going into the "forked" version, which I like to call the "real" version, for lack of a better term....</code>
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:It's also referred to as the "new" version, despite the content being identical when it was launched. The accurate and non-emotive term would be "independently hosted" version, or "independent" to be brief. (Or “Indy” for pants style brevity.) The same as this is the "Wikia hosted" or "Wikia" site. (Personally I like enunco and unwicom as they are abbreviations of the URLs, but that hasn't taken off.)
  +
<code>...I still intend to check my talk page on this, the Wikia version, just in case someone might stumble upon it and ask me a question about something or whatever. I intend to stick around here long enough to at least attempt to help smooth the transition of this version into the eventual new community, if one does in fact come around, and then if things take off here I can rest a little easier knowing that things are being taken care of...</code>
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:Sadly, many of the users who are now editing predominantly at the independent version are sticking around here predominantly to troll, or otherwise be a nuisance. RAHB has barely been back here at all. BB came back purely to troll and spruik the independent site, and when asked to stop he took it as an attack, and has now been banned. EMC decided to start changing site navigation tools to redirect to the independent version. (There is a very simple way of stopping '''all''' traffic directly from this site to the fork, with about three lines of code. Which means if Wikia wanted to completely stop all links to the independent site, it would have been done by now. Of course, any links from the independent site coming through to here have been changed, no matter the context. So Administration at the independent site are being more authoritarian than Wikia are.)
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<code>...Or, if things don't take off here, I can rest a little easier knowing that I can just assume people will start coming to the new version of Uncyclopedia instead, and I won't have to worry too much about people coming here and getting the wrong idea of the wiki if it turns into a vandal-magnet.</code>
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:I though being a vandal magnet was part of what we were about here.
  +
:Having said all that, if you choose to go over to the indy site and not return here, then have fun. Sadly most of the people who I would have trusted to keep this site strong have done much the same. If you want to do what Al has done and bounce between the two, then you're always welcome here. (Although MrN8999 is more welcome - I always thought he was a better writer.) {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|04:09 16 Feb}}
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::8999 here. Remember me? That guy right? ... That 9000 fellow sysop protected his user page to keep us out, and banned Cajek to make sure. What an Asshole. I always preferred 9001 actually. Quiet fellow. Hard worker, and virtually no fixation on pants. Of any kind. Pantaloons, bloomers, or britches.
  +
On a non garment related issues:
  +
<center><YouTube>dOFsG6_r4wo</YouTube></center>
  +
I have read around most of the forums and such now, but I'm still not clear on exactly what your objection to the "New" wiki is? That you don't like how it was set up and announced? Yea, I read the forum that happened in recently... I don't understand why that is an objection to what it is now though. You said that you had asked questions of the new site, but they had been ignored or not well answered. My questions were answered.
   
But for some reason I can't locate this specific phrase on your site, and it seems your Terms of Use are actually not meant to be taken seriously anyway. I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.
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[[File:Status quo 2005.jpg|thumb|center|200px|...]]
   
A 'Nigger Job Application' in reference to Maori isn't funny, it's racist. As I said before, this page was created by a bunch of regular posters from Topix who have decided to take their racist commentary to this site in order to mock (i.e. bully) other Topix users, and anyone who spends anytime in Topix New Zealand knows these guys have problems because they also refer to Maori on Topix as 'coons' etc, so the whole 'jest' thing doesn't wash.
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What questions did you ask and not get an answer for? What are the issues I do not understand? Please explain it to me? {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>21:36, Feb 16</small></small>
  +
:There's an emotive aspect to these discussions, sadly, as people get emotional relating to it. For me there's too much about the new site structure that just isn't open enough for me to understand, which makes it harder to trust those that hold the power over there. And I don't mean trusting their intentions - I'm confident that the Indy site was created with high ideals in mind. The issue is that I don't know who owns the rights to the URL, and therefore who can then sell it. I'm also unaware of how the hosting is structured, so if it's possible that the host could introduce a commercial aspect. And I'm unaware of how any income made from donations/merchandise sale/etc. is structured to be put back into supporting the community. And what worries me the most is what will happen if (and likely when) the cost of supporting the site hosting exceeds the amount that the community are willing to put into it's hosting.
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:And while I dislike having an external censor who controls the content we host, I also dislike not having guidelines on what we host. The problem is that the less we have in relationship to guidelines on “acceptable content” and the more financial burden this puts on those that are currently supporting it, the more likely we are to run down the path that ED did in the past. Even the Wikia site is more like Illogicopedia than it used to be, and elements of ED memeism and sickopedia stupidity keep creeping in.
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:Wikia hosting is not perfect, but it's a devil I know and understand. Every time I ask about these other issues I get stonewalled or told I'm just trying to destroy that site. I honestly don't agree with the “There can be only one” mentality. But I'm hesitant to add any support to a site where I don't know where my work will end up or in what way it will be used. Especially when I'm told on one hand my opinion is worthless, but on the other hand my writing is worthwhile and free to be used in any way they see fit.
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:I want both sites to succeed. I just can't see the viability of the independent site. And until I know I can trust it to survive and remain non-commercial, I don't want to submit any writing there. (Although I'm still happy to natter with people and give technical help where I can.)
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:In the meantime, I '''know''' this site works. And I have enough invested in this site staying afloat that I refuse to abandon it for a site that I can't rely on. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|04:12 17 Feb}}
  +
::What Pup said. Also, I really don't think the fork is able to handle real-world legal issues. So, even if the website hosts act is good faith, and the community is able to give $1,500 a year, the whole thing could suddenly disappear because someone mucked up a DMCA takedown notice. In that case, all your donations, and the domain name, will go to the highest bidder, and the edit history over there may be lost. If you don't want your articles to go missing, then I would suggest having them in as many places as possible. I gave Aleister permission to move my articles to the fork, but they haven't been moved over there for whatever reason. --{{User:Mnbvcxz/sig5}} 08:11, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::I have read lots of stuff around the wiki now, but have ''not'' been into IRC. From what I can tell a lot of organizing the "fork" was done on IRC. I can also see that in some cases the way that decisions were made, and then how those decisions was communicated to others was poor at times. Reading through the forums some comments in particular were particularly poorly made. I'm not surprised that some users took aversion to what looked a lot like someone telling them what to do. It was like... "OK guys! we are leaving. k thanks bye.". No discussion. The decision had already been made for you. I can see how it kinda looked like that. I think Romartus said something along those lines. For the record, I remember talking about this back in... Um. 2009?
   
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/new-zealand/TMV2MGAFP9F3A6VTE#c1
+
OK. Actual issues:
  +
*The issue is that I don't know who owns the rights to the URL, and therefore who can then sell it.
  +
This is what RAHB said to me:
  +
{{Q| The server we're using now is owned by a server-lending sort of company in Europe or something. I forgot the name, somebody else knows. I believe that most things are currently in {{u|Lyrithya}}'s name. She also is doing a great deal of remote server administration, as are {{u|Legoktm}} and wctaiwan (a person whose account I can't find at the moment and probably goes by a different name). Bizzeebeaver above, Skizzerz and Jack Phoenix round out the very technical side of things. As well as a user on freenode that I know as Emufarmers. EMC (who now goes by the nick {{U|Hotadmin4u69}}, it's a long story, don't ask) is running most of our social media and the Uncyclopedia store. Zombiebaron and I have been...uh, observing the process I suppose, as we both have server access but no idea what to actually use it for. On the less technical end of things, Zombiebaron and TKF are the most active 'crats, and {{u|Dawg}} has also made a triumphant return recently. Zombiebaron is supreme dictator of the world for life. The server is being paid for by some generous users and hopefully by donations and store purchases in the future. The guarantee that we won't become a for-profit site generally comes from three factors. One is that, for what it's worth, I put my utmost trust in the above listed users and their commitment to keeping the site's integrity in-tact. Two is that legally things are much cleaner for us if we remain non-profit anyway. And three is that servers and bandwidth are expensive and any money that comes in will need to go to that stuff first and foremost, and then second and second-most. A number of forums detail users' concerns with this and administration's reassurances. The main function of this new Uncyclopedia is to be Uncyclopedia by and for the Uncyclopedians. User suggestions are taken into account when dictating how to use the resources at our disposal and users are encouraged to donate to server upkeep. Also, if I'm not mistaken, we're currently working on getting some sort of Non-Profit "organization" sort of registration or something, although I might be mistaken. {{u|Lyrithya}} would probably best be able to answer anything more specific than I've already said and correct my glaring errors.|{{U|RAHB}}}}
  +
:To me this means that one of the Uncyc admins owns it. Someone had to. Would you like to? In my opinion the person who has actually put their name to this is rather brave. If anything ''did'' go wrong with the site, then the person who owns the url is likely to be in the firing line. So what is to stop them selling it to make money? Nothing. They could. Well, if they did. We would kill them. We would go to their home and cut their heart out with a spoon. It would not be like when Chronarion sold the site last time. He made a mistake. He trusted Wikia not to make drastic changes to Uncyclopedia, and they did. But... That would not happen again. Due to this situation being different, and also the issue with the spoon. :)
  +
*I'm also unaware of how the hosting is structured, so if it's possible that the host could introduce a commercial aspect.
   
This might be 'funny' over at Storm Front or maybe some local chapter of the KKK, but Uncyclopedia?
+
Well... There is a server. If the site ever becomes commericial we would cut out the heart of appropriate people with the previously discussed spoon. The site will need to generate enough money to run. Donations and merchendising will do this. I'm confident of this, and I know that there are a few individuals who will (if necessary) stump up the cash required to run the site. We are NOT ED. I don't know why you think that moving away from Wikia will make us more shock and awe. The site was fine before Wikia. It will be fine without it. Why would it change all of a sudden?
:I know nobody asked me, but I am sorta on the IP's side. Article ain't funny. Also, fuck racists.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120502031235}}
 
::Check out [[User_talk:Nzicednz]] also. Cool dude. [[The Color Problem|As you know I'm not a fan of racists either]], and agree that this article is very close to the edge, but I'm just trying to uphold the way we do things here on Uncyc. If ya think that [[Part Maori]] is not funny stick it on [[VFD]]. I will not vote either way if you do as I have no strong views either way on this. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>07:15, May 2</small></small>
 
:::Nzicednz says "some of my work mates are MOSTLY part Maoris, and they absolutely loved [this article]!" I'm with him, dude. Some of my best friends are gay Jews. They all love my new article, {{fakelink|UnBooks:Faggy McJewJew Steals Everybody's Gold and Sodomizes Some Gentile Children}}.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120502082553}}
 
::::Yea, I saw that. [[Holocaust Tycoon]] probably upset some people also. Like I said... Trying to convince me to delete an article "because it's racist" will NEVER work. However... Trying to convince me that... "It's not funny" is a different matter which is why I recommend VFD so that the community (and not me) gets to decide. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>08:36, May 2</small></small>
 
'''[[Uncyclopedia:Votes_for_deletion#Part_Maori]]''' {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>11:04, May 2</small></small>
 
:'''[[Uncyclopedia:Votes_for_deletion/Archive263#Part_Maori]] 24.187.210.90 wins! {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>12:55, May 8</small></small>
 
   
== why ==
+
* And I'm unaware of how any income made from donations/merchandise sale/etc. is structured to be put back into supporting the community.
must you ruin my vengeful schemes! {{User:Frosty/sig3}} 10:29, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Because I don't like anything which is in anyway amusing or fun. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>10:33, May 2</small></small>
 
::Hi. A little while after I joined, and while you were still MIA, Frostee and I started a tradition: when Frosty is feeling bored, I vandalize his user page, and he reciprocates. It's less fun if an admin comes along and bans one of us for doing it, y'know?{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120507114820}}
 
:::Back in "my day" ''[[them|they]]'' used to ban us for 1 day for doing that. Dude you got 20 mins, and the other dude (who did not start it and also blanked your page) did not get banned. So he "won". As he pointed out at the time. Think of it this way... Why is it fun to do it? It's fun because it's "risky". Also think of it from an admin point of view... What if... {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>17:34, May 7</small></small>
 
::::Whatever. Alls I'm saying is, nobody ever banned me for vandalizing Frosty's page. Anyway, carry on, Captain Funkiller.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120508061301}}
 
   
== Hello ==
+
What information would you like? Maybe there should be some kinda Uncyclopedia constitution drawn up about this? Please write it? Please? ??? Please? I will let you sleep with my sister is you agree to this...
   
Pleasure to meet you. I just added numerous pages to VFD. After I added them I noticed there was a restriction on flooding there. I had picked up on these earlier but had been unable to add them previously, which is why I did that. I don't intend to do this regularly, however if it was too much too soon feel free to undo what I did, and I'd prefer to remain unbanned if at all possible. --[[User:C₂H₆O|C₂H₆O]] [[User talk:C₂H₆O|(hic)]] 10:39, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
+
*Per Mnz... What Pup said. Also, I really don't think the fork is able to handle real-world legal issues
:I also have to say, your diplomacy on [[Part Maori]] was commendable. --[[User:C₂H₆O|C₂H₆O]] [[User talk:C₂H₆O|(hic)]] 10:43, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
+
:{{U|Chronarion}} managed it. What issues can't we handle?
:::Na. What you did was fine. The days of people flooding VFD appear to have past anyway. That was something which used to happen a lot in the in the old days, but these days VFD is a lot less busy so I don't think anyone will mind now. If you want to be sure of not being accused of flooding in the future, and you want to nom lots more pages, leave a bit of a gap (in time) between your nominations (doing a few at the same time is OK, but if you nom loads of pages then leave a gap of a few hours). Also, make sure that you leave ''some'' space for other to nominate on VFD by making sure that you don't fill up the 20 limit. Nominating 5 or 6 at the same time is fine. Assuming that you have read all our related guidelines and policies and such... Yea. Boring I know. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>10:48, May 2</small></small>
 
::::I have to admit that I have not read them in detail. I did read the How to be funny guide, but that multi-page one was more than I could pay attention to. I read the guidelines on deletion as well but they assume some prior knowledge on the readers part. The one thing I did check was that the total number of articles would remain below 20. Having watched that page for a few days since Mattsnow brought it to my attention I've noticed it doesn't get very busy. I also have to say I'm very impressed by the sense of community here. Having previously been at other forums there tends to be a lot of trolling and harsh words thrown about in similar places. For a community built around satire the support I've had here has been tremendous. And nobody has once criticised me for knowing nothing about the mark-up language. --[[User:C₂H₆O|C₂H₆O]] [[User talk:C₂H₆O|(hic)]] 10:57, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::It's worth reading up if you do plan on sticking around. I hope you do... ... Oh we have our share of trolls and idiots, but we allow them to get away with it so long as they are funny enough when they do it. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>11:02, May 2</small></small>
 
::::::I'm sure you do. I wonder if you see this place clearly though. Rather than criticise you support, and rather than admonish you correct. If you are anywhere for too long there is a tendency to become jaded, as you are dealing with the minutiae and issues and that's what you remember. The bigger picture though is that you're creating - have created - a vast library of humour. You have a community that focuses on helping each other. From the perspective of someone with fresh eyes, it feels like Augustus Gloop walking into Wonka's factory. Be proud of what you have done! --[[User:C₂H₆O|C₂H₆O]] [[User talk:C₂H₆O|(hic)]] 11:11, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::::It's true! ...and I claim all the credit! Just me! Well, actually a few others probably helped a bit here and there if I'm honest... {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>11:34, May 2</small></small>
 
==Should I create categories for UnNews dates?==
 
I would have to go back a very long freaking way... What do you think? {{User:Mattsnow/sig}} 16:35, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Hea Matt. Not sure what you mean. I just made the two cats for today and yesterday that we needed. Is that what you meant? {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>16:38, May 4</small></small>
 
::Yep, that's it. I never created any :S Should I do that when I have time? {{User:Mattsnow/sig}} 16:42, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Dude you run UnNews don't you? Why the hell are you asking me? YES DO IT!!!! {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>16:44, May 4</small></small>
 
::::Well, nobody ever told me to do that! Thanks for the template, means a lot. {{User:Mattsnow/sig}} 20:51, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==I would like to bring your attention to this forum ==
+
*Is able to give $1,500 a year,
[[Forum:Vote to De-Op Lyrithya]] {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|03:20 07 May}}
 
   
==I would like to bring your attention to these boobs==
+
I don't think it's $1,500 a year. I thought that was total setup cost, not per year.
[[File:Boobs.jpg|200px|right]]
+
*the whole thing could suddenly disappear because someone mucked up a DMCA takedown notice. In that case, all your donations, and the domain name, will go to the highest bidder, and the edit history over there may be lost. If you don't want your articles to go missing, then I would suggest having them in as many places as possible.
Ok, now, while your attention is diverted to the margin over there...>
 
   
...I figured I'd tell you to do this:
+
On the legal side... I'm not a lawyer, but i have slept with a few, so I think that makes me an expert. :) My understanding is that Wikia hosted Uncyclopedia is far more vulnerable to legal attack than "free" Uncyclopedia because Wikia make money out of Uncyclopedia. Because wikia are a commercial money making company who are making money out of hosting these pages when someones complains about these pages the law listens more. For example... If I write a book saying you are gay, and sell it, and people laugh at you and I make money because of that, then that's worse than if I write a book saying you are gay, but give it away. Anyway, I don't totally understand it, you probably actually need to be gay to understand it. However, I do see the sense in it. A non profit making site has got to be harder to attack legally than a profit making one. If "free" Uncyc gets a DMCA takedown notice then I guess the community will deal with it in an open forum. How much better is that than Wikia just telling us they have decided for us. Do we have the balls to actually handle this kinda stuff? Yes. We do. I think so. That's why we did this.
  +
The way I see it.... The WORST that could happen is that if for some reason the Uncyc community was not able to host the site any more then it would eventually end up going back to some random wiki host. Like Wikia. Yep. They would take us back. I bet you. There are others who would I suspect. Because.... We make money for them, which is why they want to keep this wiki open now. Anyone can take a copy of the database. I have done a few times. Lots of people will always do this for Uncyc. There is a mirror anyway. The content of the database of Uncyc will never "die". Where it is hosted might change, but someone will always be willing to host us for the same reason that Wikia do not want to let go of the site now. Money.
   
*Step 1: stick the following code in either your uncyclopedia.js or else your monobook.js:
+
*... And until I know I can trust it to survive and remain non-commercial, I don't want to submit any writing there.
:<code>importScript( "User:Bizzeebeever/scripts/patrol.js" )</code>
 
*Step 2: do a hard refresh.
 
*Step 2½: enjoy.
 
   
You should see a "patrol all changes" link for groups of unpatrolled changes on RC. You're welcome.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120508130531}}
+
That's why I'm here. I want to convince you to do that. How can I? If we wrote a "constitution" and got acceptance of that at "free" Uncyc would that do it? {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>23:04, Feb 17</small></small>
:As Kuato said in Total Recall "Those tits are fucking amazing". No wait. He said... "You are what you do". Thanks dude, your .js is proving very, very handy. I will do some more testing and see how it goes before advertising it more widely to everyone. I'm not sure the pop up conformation box is needed... Would it be possible to have a tab which appears at the top of the page which does a similar thing? I guess it's more tricky to know how far back to go with them. Maybe it could clear everything back to April 1st or something like that? If it could just clear all the edits made by the last user it would also be very useful. I have a feeling that doing this using a page tab might be more useful as that's more likely to fit with the order of how people would be likely to use it. With it being on RC you have to click it first, and then check after, which is kinda backwards, although this is still a hell of a lot better than nothing. Thanks again. :) {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>13:35, May 8</small></small>
 
::It just "patrols" the unpatrolled changes shown, right there, on the recentchanges page. Nothing more, nothing less. And there doesn't seem to be a way to find the rcids for all intervening changes when looking at the diff page itself, so...I suppose it's doable, but difficult. If you want to literally patrol ''all'' edits, that's doable, too, but ...time-consuming. I should change the link text, too, seeing as it confused you. Should read, "patrol these changes". I'm stoopit.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120508134050}}
 
:::It IS very useful, and may well turn this whole patrolled edits thing into something which is actually feasible to manage and workable. I don't think there would be a need to patrol ALL changes going back to 2005 or whatever, but if it could simply do all the changes for the last user/IP that would catch most of them. Obviously if we could select ''any'' group of changes from any point to any point and mark them all with one click that would probably be the holy grail of patrolling! I figure a tab which appears at the top of the page and can just mark all the edits by the most recent user would also help a lot. Anyway, I guess you are all out of .js juice for now so I suggest we both nip off and watch Total Recall another 300 times. Actually my copy appears to go all corrupt in a few places. I really must transfer my VHS based porn back catalogue onto digital media at some point. I'm sure there is some .js to do that somewhere. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>13:57, May 8</small></small>
 
::::Actually... I just realised. We probably want it to show the "patrol these changes" thing on RC even if it's only 1 change. Currently it only does that for groups? [http://xhamster.com/movies/347477/she_has_3_tits.html NSFW!!!] {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>14:00, May 8</small></small>
 
:::::It does it for single changes, too, (now).{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120508145513}}
 
::::::Also, I'll tweak the script so it puts a li'l check-mark next to the patrolled item, instead of having a pop-up. The popup is a quick solution for now.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120508145647}}
 
:::::::I just noticed that [[A wizard did it|magically]] appear on my RC before you post your message! Do you think we could loose the "Revision Patrolled" pop up box also? <s>If it can just do it without bothering to tell us that's probably better as it's a pain having to close it all the time. </s> dam wizards. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>14:59, May 8</small></small>
 
::::::::OK BB... If you get a chance... Take a look at [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?hideenhanced=0&hidepatrolled=1 this]. Any ideas why these pages are not showing up with your wizardry? I can't seem to get the new pages marked. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>16:17, May 8</small></small>
 
:::::::::Yeahhhh...that's because MediaWiki's software is retarded. When a user makes a new page and then makes a bunch of changes to it, here's what you see:
 
   
:'''N''' <span style="color:red">!</span> 09:36 [[Talk:Agile software development]]‎‎ (4 changes | [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/Talk:Agile_software_development?action=history hist]) . . <span style="color:green">'''(+1,531)'''</span> . . [<nowiki/>[[Special:Contributions/139.149.31.232|139.149.31.232]]‎; {{U|AlisDarling}}‎ (3×)]
+
== a new header ==
   
:::::::::Here's what you SHOULD see:
+
Large sections make it a nightmare to write on my phone.
   
:'''N''' <span style="color:red">!</span> 09:36 [[Talk:Agile software development]]‎‎ (<span style="color:red">'''&gt;&gt;'''</span>[http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AAgile_software_development&action=historysubmit&diff=5498194&oldid=5498168 4 changes]<span style="color:red">'''&lt;&lt;'''</span> | {{fakelink|patrol these changes}} | [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/Talk:Agile_software_development?action=history hist]) . . <span style="color:green">'''(+1,531)'''</span> . . [<nowiki/>[[Special:Contributions/139.149.31.232|139.149.31.232]]‎; {{U|AlisDarling}}‎ (3×)]
+
This NFP organisation that has been established is a concern, as the only way I know it exists is via heresay. But a genuine charter, T&Cs, and structure is important to establish. Because that's what will give us an assurance that unfettered we ''won't'' become another ED. Both sites complain about arbitrary and harsh decisions made by admins on the other. Without having a solid guideline to point back to and say “''This decision was made because of this'' saves us from having that criticism. [[HTBFANJS]] covers a lot of it, but is limited due to the fact that it's more a manual of style than anything else.
   
:::::::::The lack of that link is what screws it up. However, you can click "patrol this change" for the ''very first'' change, and then refresh RC. The page will then show up with a "N changes" link, as well as a "patrol these changes" link. There's no way to fix the script, I don't think, except through a very kludgy workaround. I'll have a look-see, though.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120508165316}}
+
I was under the impression from my reading that the server was hosted in Canada, but I could be completely wrong on that. It may simply be that most of the work on the server prior to 5th January came from Canada. Because ZB has been busy.
::::::::::I think it's also due to other people having edited the page who might be auto patrolled. For example...
 
 
N ! 14:01 Talk:Agile software development‎‎ (3 changes | hist) . . (+1,201) . . [139.149.31.232‎; AlisDarling‎ (2×)]
 
   
Actually has 5 changes, but because 1 of them was me (an auto patrolled user), and I manually clicked one of them it's gone wrong and displayed the wrong stuff due to the way I'm viewing RC with [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?hideenhanced=0&hidepatrolled=1 this]. I guess we can live with that, as it's probably very tricky to get around. It's still very useful as it is... {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>17:12, May 8</small></small>
+
As an aside: The mirror is a very limited resource, by the way. It's only updated manually, and that's generally done by me. I'm having enough issues getting on here to do the little that I do as it is. And now I'm stuck with the problem of what gets updated from which site. It looks as though Carlb has decided that the Indy site is the “official” site, but his dislike or Wikia borders on the fanatical, so I give little credence to his perspective.
:Well, I'm feeling a little sick right now, because of [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=Zombiebaron&page=&year=2012&month=5&limit=20 this]. I think I'm going to take a couple of days off. Pup was one of my favorite writers.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120508181407}}
 
::I just e-mailed him. I can't believe it. If that is really his sockpuppet then he deserves to be blocked for ever. He knows better, and [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Uncyclopedia%3ANoob_of_the_Moment&action=historysubmit&diff=5497158&oldid=5497069 this] is particularly disappointing, and if it's true it represents a total betrayal of trust to the community. It's very unlikely that this is a mistake. Fucking hell. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>18:26, May 8</small></small>
 
:::Yeah, Frosty was suspicious of "Alcohol" when he told me about him on IRC. I was even going to leave a couple of dog-related puns on Alcohol's talk page, because I was suspicious myself. But I figured he wouldn't be that dumb. I knew "Alcohol" was from a commonwealth country; he was wordy; and of course he tackled some of the "vital" pages immediately. Man, people just fly to their fate, don't they? {{unsigned|Bizzeebeever}}
 
::::This really sucks. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>19:05, May 8</small></small>
 
   
== I was serious about clearer lines being drawn about having reverence for the dead. ==
+
It also operates in the principle of “''we don't delete unless it's [[UN:CB]] or [[UN:CM]]''”. Which meant that I could revive [[Point-Counterpoint]], so there is an advantage to that. But it also means if we needed to recreate the site from the mirror we'd have the nightmare job first of clearing out all the deadwood. (Which I have a long-term solution for, but that's an off-site discussion.)
   
{{times|Don't ban me. I seriously am wondering about that. I was only using Puppy as an example (I just learned about his sockpuppetry through various sources, which sickens me). Could you please answer me about the questions I asked in the forum (that you deleted)? {{User:TheHappySpaceman/sig/hollywood}} 23:48, 05/08/2012}}
+
But back to main point: If the new site has a charter, and is funded by an officially registered NFP that keeps it separate from individual manipulation, that takes out the personal element from the reins of control, and I'll happily edit there more regularly. I'll continue to work here predominantly though, and then further down the list will be the mirror. And it'll mean that I'll actually be happy to leave my existing content there. But we really need people like yourself and Al to try and remain as impartial as possible relating to issues between the two wikis. Otherwise ''both'' will suffer due to fighting between the two. (And we need people like SPIKE and BB to focus on one wiki over the other as well, but we already have them.) {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|12:01 18 Feb 2013}}
:I thought I answered you in my deletion reason? Don't worry I won't ban you for talking to me, or asking questions. I just don't want that forum there. :-) {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>23:49, May 8</small></small>
 
::{{times|{{@user|MrN9000}} Okay, thanks, I'll try to remember that in the future. :) Anyway, my main question is why he got banned in the first place (before he created a sockpuppet). Also, I was wondering about what we should say/how we should act when someone dies. {{User:TheHappySpaceman/sig/hollywood}} 23:58, 05/08/2012}}
 
:::He was banned because he was... [[UN:R|being a dick]]. When a real (famous) person dies... You create an article. Like [[UnNews:Porn star Nora Batty dies]] for example. If it's an Uncyc user and you don't know enough about Uncyc politics to know or understand ''why'' that user was banned you keep your head down and accept that hopefully some of the admins do know what they are doing and trust their judgement. How about you trust me? Puppy was one of my all time favourite users on Uncyc. If I thought ZB was wrong to block him I would take the issue up with him. I don't, and have not. You can always find out what happened by looking in peoples contributions and following conversations. That's all the rest of us do. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:06, May 9</small></small>
 
::::MrN speaks wise words, and can be trusted. I know nothing myself about what goes on at IRC, and some of that may have been involved. But MrN, do you agree with an infiban? Lots of dicks around this situation, and Puppy seems to have been on the volley end of a lot of people at once. So is that point of view wrong, or was Puppy, by being the only one to be so totally punished, deserving of it? Not to create any drama, I'm just interested in your opinion per above. Thanks. And what if everyone apologies to everyone else? [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 00:23 9-5-'12
 
:::::I'm not active in IRC and have not been for months. If YOU agreed to go into IRC more then I would also. :P As for the perm ban... Fucking hell. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. That's my initial comment. But yes, I do agree with the perm ban. Even if none of the other stuff had happened regarding all the other drama the one single offence of creating a sock and pretending to be new... Asking for help, wasting everyone's time and then allowing that sock to be nominated for NotM and then voting on that sock... TWICE... using ''both'' accounts? That's worthy of a perm ban on it's own right. Forget everything else. Forget the reasons why he created the sock. I don't mind sock puppets. It's what people do with them that I mind. I feel totally betrayed by PuppyOnTheRadio. I have e-mailed him. I even told him my real name in that e-mail. That's how much I care about him. Dude I ''really'' love Puppy, but he's lost his marbles here. PuppyOnTheRadio as a user is dead now. If the man behind that account somehow managed to continue to edit at Uncyc undetected I personally would turn a blind eye so long as NotM and other awards were not in question, but yes. Puppy deserved what he got. We can't tolerate that. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:37, May 9</small></small>
 
::::::Agree word-for-word with what MrN just said.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120509004513}}
 
:::::::By the way, I'm on IRC ...wayyyy more than I should be. Did you know they've got trivia back in the channel? No joke.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120509004856}}
 
::::::::If so, he went out with a bang! Alcohol is a classic sock. He says that he voted on the Noob twice because to "win" the NoobOfTheMoment only takes 5 votes, so Alcohol had won already. But if he came back under a different name, and noone knew it, he'd get nommed for NotM and WotM (maybe it will take him a little longer than nine days next time, but who knows?). He didn't nom himself for the awards, and agreed not to take the Writer of the Month thing. An interesting series of circumstances and logger rolls, yep. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 00:53 9-5-'12
 
:::::::::Great. Now every time a new user shows promise, we have to worry if it's Pup coming back again to be a douche. Classy.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120509005817}}
 
:::::::::He did accept the nomination though, and would have won it. Similar things have happened many times before with various other users. We are used to it. Also... It is totally possible for an experience user to run a sock puppet without it getting noticed or nominated or affecting anything important which we/they don't want it to. ''Trust me ;)'' {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>01:03, May 9</small></small>
 
::::::::::Oh poop. Everyone got way too serious about this whole thing, everybody who was involved is at fault. So Puppy played a game and then voted on something his game had already won (he never nommed Alcohol or his articles for anything). After a day it seems to me (or imnho) that uncy needs Puppy's value more than it needs to make a point that really is just about someone playing. The value Puppy brings to the site each and every day would pay off his deep blah deep wounding of the site and some bruised egos in days if not hours, so maybe after a couple of days go by everyone can rethink this in a cost/valueadded real-world real-site value context. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 10:59 9-5-'12
 
:::::::::::I agree with most of what you say. IMO Puppy has been THE MOST useful and productive user on this site for sometime now. But there is now way back for {{U|PuppyOnTheRadio}} now. I don't seriously think for one second that's the last we have seen of the man behind the account, but I do think his PuppyOnTheRadio account ''is'' dead now. He betrayed my trust (and I think the trust of the community) when he switched from creating a sock because he loves Uncyc and wanted to edit and started to enjoy the trolling associated with pretending to be someone else actively on other people's talk pages, forums, votes, and competitions. Take a good look at all the contributions of his sock. I did. I could list a large number of particular things which I found particularly repugnant about what that sock did, but I will not unless you really want me to. It would take a while to list them all, and I don't think it would help matter to do it, but I will if you ask me. If Puppy had created a harmless sock like say... {{U|ThatGuyThatEdits}} ''*Whistles innocently*'' then I would agree with you. Like I said, I don't mind socks, it's what people do with them. Actually it's not even what people ''do'' it's what they intend which matters to me. What Puppy did and I think intended to do showed a total lack of respect for the community, and I personally feel lack of respect (and friendship) for myself as I personally put a shit load of effort into trying to calm the waters. When I read his recent IP comments on your talk page it's clear he still does not understand or "get it". I hope he will soon. Puppy was not to blame for much of what happened, and all great artists struggle to manage their emotions and judgement and I wish that others would recognise that more sometimes... We have banned a good few other great users because of nothing more than clashes of personality with some admins. I don't blame Puppy for feeling upset and aggrieved about how he was treated. He refused to put his tail between his legs when asked to by someone who was wrong. I do blame him for making a concious choice over many, many days to deliberately attempt to make a mockery of the entire site, and me. Puppy will be back I'm sure. It's a wiki. It's impossible to stop an intelligent person from editing here, but the man behind PuppyOnTheRadio deserves to be punished, and his punishment is to loose that account. If he comes back later with a new account and I notice it... I will keep my mouth shut. If one of the other admins notices it, and bans him again... I will not fight his corner any more. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>11:44, May 9</small></small>
 
::::::::::::I'm not going to 'peach on him, either. However, I will say that if Lyrithya were making comments on other peoples' talk pages, she'd (a) link to {{W|WP:DIVA}}, and then (b) tell us we were encouraging him to break rules by talking about him. :D{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120509115138}}
 
:::::::::::::WP does not have or need divas, it has and needs machines. Uncyc does not really have rules, it has feelings. Puppy has hurt them badly. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>11:56, May 9</small></small>
 
::::::::::::::Thanks for the long thought, this isn't easy on anybody (I hope), and all of us have different takes on it. As far as I know someone of Puppy's prominence here has never been infibanned, and if he does come back as [[user:Jason and the Argonauts|Jason and the Argonauts]] or [[user:Whiskey is my downfall|Whiskey is my downfall]] I would welcome it. But we are early in this experience, and maybe in a few days or weeks...who knows. Thanks again. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 12:32 9-5-'12
 
   
== Pee Buddy contest!! ==
+
:Thanks Pup. Uncyclopedia is my favorite place on the net, and currently I see the community being ripped in half. That is not good. ... I hope I'm impartial. I do however have views about what the best thing is for Uncyclopedia. I'm pretty sure that does not involve the userbase being ripped in half...
   
Judging is over and the results are [[User:Mattsnow/Pee Buddy judging|here!]] It would be cool if you could change the header to something like "The Pee Buddy Results are in! See who is the most stupid journalist!". And link to the page of course. I sent the prizes and congrats to everyone! {{User:Mattsnow/sig}} 01:41, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
:How's that? {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>01:47, May 9</small></small>
 
::Thanks! Coiuld you also unlock the UnNews? They were locked for judging. Hosting a competition is a lot more work than I thought! Thank God there was only 8 entries (one was written by C2H6O, I was shocked to find out who it really was) {{User:Mattsnow/sig}} 02:04, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Think I got em all. I have not been paying as much attention to this comp as I should have, and did not know that you were running it. Nice one. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>02:20, May 9</small></small>
 
   
== haha ==
+
:I have done a bit of reading up about NFP organisations and from what I can tell it's mostly about tax and such. I don't know if the new site has "official" NFP status, or what that would mean if it did. But... Surely whatever setup there was there must in the end be an element of trust. I guess someone is going to be taking money from the merchandising and donations and whoever is doing this could ''potentially'' rip us off. Even if free Uncyc was registered as a NFP then that would not prevent them doing that. You said "takes out the personal element from the reins of control". I don't understand what you mean by this. Surely whatever happens someone somewhere has got to be trusted to handle the money?
   
I forbid you to use your signature. In fact I might even put it on VFD if it didn't have consequences. {{User:Frosty/sig3}} 09:09, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
:I'm hoping that the other admins make similar changes. It actually ''could'' be funny that article. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>09:10, May 9</small></small>
 
   
== Puppy ==
+
:I guess the thing which would stop free Uncyc from being used for profit would be the same thing which stopped Wikia from plastering adds all over the wiki like they always wanted to... That thing is us. If whoever has the power to abuse Uncyc tried to abuse it the users would not let them. Just like they have here with Wikia. Without the support of the community it actually does not matter if you own the url of a wiki, you still can't go against the wish of the community because if you do they will all leave the site and you have noone to run it. Also, the spoon.
   
Just looking over [[UN:BAN]] I don't think creating the sockpuppet account warranted an indefinite block. Why don't you go talk to Zombiebaron about it? --{{User:Qzekrom/sig3}} 23:10, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
:[[Barf|Out of]] [[Oral sex|the mouths]] [[Asian women|of babes]]. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 23-9-'12 A.P. (afterPuppy)
 
::Yeah. He kind of needs to be here to run Pee Buddy (if it happens next year). --{{User:Qzekrom/sig3}} 23:40, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::I'm going to bed... Night all. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>00:05, May 10</small></small>
 
::::Good night... do you mind if we stay overnight and discuss this shit a little more? --{{User:Qzekrom/sig3}} 00:09, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==MrN==
+
:I'm guessing that free Uncyc is not "officially" as an registered nfp. I assume that if it were then that would cost money?
Dick. That said and that lololol, (edit conflict) you maybe should put down the keyboard before you write again. A group has now turned on you, which makes those users seem really something, so take it with a grain of cyanide, ah, salt, and please don't talk of giving up your admin post. I don't believe this has taken this new turn so quickly!!! - and that's exactly what happened to Puppy!!!!! Look at your quick reaction to the attack, it's like, Wha??? WTF???? Puppy was just hanging out winning the vote in the second round of VFS when, la la la, when bammmmmMMM, the attack came suddenly from several directions. I've seen this before in real life situations, and it's more of a crowd mentality. But this, for whatever reason, is exactly the problem here. Your entire career here has been called on the carpet by a few users very quickly, they didn't even read what you had written. So it was with Puppy, he's a proud man who was knocked down from behind. I never understood why, and he didn't either, and was wondering just what he'd done. What just happened to you puts front and center that there is something going on with lots of people here, some with big bansticks, and I hope that they now can see that things have gotten way too extreme and many apologies are in order left and right and down the middle. Your apology to the injured Mattsnow (oh god, the humanity, he's, he's hurt, man) was very nice. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] everybody please admit their excesses and let's see if a clean slate works best for the site, what say ye? 00:14 10-5-'12
 
:Actually I think you should address your concerns about Pups to [[User talk:Zombiebaron|Zombiebaron]] because he banned the guy. Great man. ''See also:''
 
<youtube>jUe8uoKdHao</youtube>
 
:--{{User:Qzekrom/sig3}} 00:38, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
::I addressed this specific point to MrN because he supports an infiban (which imnho is way too much, and devalues the site instead of improving it) and I wanted to point out how quick things can fly and how his reaction of possibly leaving his admin post happened within minutes. The same thing happened to Puppy, whose reaction was first to quit VFS and then get defensive, and then finally made a sockpuppet to keep ''helping'' the site. I want to say that everyone should see this as a cosmic joke, ala {{W|Ivan Stang}} and the {{W|Church of the Subgenius}}, and give everyone a clean slate and let everybody play and dance like we've never danced before. Too many monkeys not enough cooks! [[user:Aleister|'''Bojo, Chimp #29''']] 00:46 10-5-'12
 
:::Could everybody just take a step back and take some deep breaths? MrN had almost nothing to do with this "Pup" fiasco. Just chill, and it will sort itself.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120510010936}}
 
::::I posted that YouTube video for a reason. I just have a knack for entertainment. ''I actually know the first part of the song by heart.'' --{{User:Qzekrom/sig3}} 01:16, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::I'm sometimes discouraged by the efforts people are investing in drama. With the forum plus all the debates on talk pages, the sum of these efforts could have produced 2 or 3 great articles. That's a shame really, because I like this site and everyone here (and I'm not lying, everyone without exception, Puppy included). {{User:Mattsnow/sig}} 03:20, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Autopatrolled is now a thing ==
 
   
*Hey MrN. Since it was your idea, I thought you'd like to know that autopatrolled is now a usergroup on Uncyclopedia. Check out [[Special:ListGroupRights|this page]] for more details. Also, the Wikia staffer who turned it on had the great idea of allowing both admins and bureaucrats to assign autopatrolled. I agreed, and that function should be turned on shortly too. -- {{User:Zombiebaron/sig}} 17:15, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
+
:RE Carlb. He has done a lot of good for the Uncyclopedia over the years. It's not just Carlb who is pointing to free Uncyc now. Also many international edits for interwiki links are now going there. Also the Facebook, Twitter and Youtube accounts also now point to free Uncyc.
*Also, I've put out what should be the final version of my multi-patrol script. I fixed it so that there are no more alert boxes, and it will be able to mark all changes for NewPages with one click, as well. Probably no need to refresh your cache. Let me know how it works for you, and notify me of any issues. Spread the word.{{User:Bizzeebeever/signature|20120510174333}}
 
Cool dudes. I might be wrong, but I think Wikipedia allow rollback to be granted by any sysop. Maybe we should also. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>15:36, May 14</small></small>
 
== Hey, man. ==
 
   
Sorry for being so spicy about the page. I guess when two of your first creations go bad, you get a little irritated. Anyway, thanks for the advice. I'm starting to learn the ropes, and I almost got my template creation technique down. {{User:WeinribŽivojinović/sig}} 15:49, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
:So if free Uncyc is not an "Official NFP" organisation ~(whatever that is) then that's a deal breaker for you? What exactly do you mean by NFP?
:''"I ain't mad at cha"'' - {{U|MrN9000|2Pac}} {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>15:36, May 14</small></small> 15:36, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== Yo Cap'n Haddock ==
+
:That aside, what should it say in the charter for new Uncyc? {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>01:05, Feb 18</small></small>
I wish to win PLS, and have decided to irritate you until you agree to run PLS. Are we of an understanding white boy?--{{user:sycamore/sig}} 16:53, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Dude, you know that normally any single comment from yourself would be irritating enough to provoke me into almost anything, but unfortunately, I have other "plans", and must respectfully recommend that you find some other <s>victim</s> organiser to run it. Tell {{U|Optimuschris}} that he's got to do it. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>15:36, May 14</small></small>
 
::Cool stuff... I'll go pester Opty:0)--{{user:sycamore/sig}} 17:42, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==DUDE!==
+
== Paraphrasing the above... ==
You're alive! -{{User:Optimuschris/sig}}<small><small>19:36, 12 May</small></small>
 
:Welcome home [[anal sex|son]]. Also apparently ''you'' <small>(see above)</small> are running the PLS. {{User:MrN9000/sig}} <small><small>15:36, May 14</small></small>
 
   
==Thank you==
+
If I may try my hand at this:
Thanks for the thing. It is a high honor (seriously, and no, I'm not high, no pun intended), and I don't think I've earned it yet, but thank you again. The promotion of the site will be one thing to do to actually earn it, and I've tried a couple of things but no fish yet. You are a gentleman and a scholar, both of which are in short but not-impossible to find supply in the innernest world. [[user:Aleister|'''Aleister''']] 18:53 14-5-'12
+
#All the costs were up-front and there are no ongoing expenses.
  +
#Zombiebaron as "dictator-for-life" is a more stable environment than a capricious corporation.
  +
#Although A Time For Secrecy gave way to A Time For Unity, anyone who was simply on IRC at the right time would have been dealt into the game from the start.
  +
#Everyone running the Fork is implicitly trustworthy, though users retain the option of cutting their hearts out with a spoon.
  +
#The Fork is safer (for us and our texts) than Wikia, through some combination of poverty and anonymity. And, it is in Europe.
   
==UnSignpost May 25th, 2012==
+
Give me a break! {{User:SPIKE/signature}}<small>00:51 18-Feb-13</small>
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120525}} --{{User:Electrified mocha chinchilla/sig}}<small><font color="#2B547E">00:09</font><font color="#387C44"> May 25 </font><font color="#2B547E"> 2012</font></small>
+
:OK SPIKE...
   
== Ideal Hardware Store ==
+
*All the costs were up-front and there are no ongoing expenses.
  +
I have no idea where you got this idea from. I have read the forums and never saw anyone say anything like that. Obviously there are on going costs.
   
Why was my article deleted? What is this Death Row thing you speak of? I must have been asleep when [[Ideal Hardware Store]] went through any deletion process, because I completely missed it. [[User:TV4Fun|TV4Fun]] ([[User talk:TV4Fun|talk]]) 17:25, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
+
*Zombiebaron as "dictator-for-life" is a more stable environment than a capricious corporation.
  +
That's a joke. Zombiebaron does not rule Uncyclopedia. On Uncyclopedia all Sysops are equal, and Sysops are also exactly equal to all Bureaucrats. A bureaucrats is not a higher rank than a sysop as the extra tools he/she has are only to be used with the express permission of the community. ZB knows this. although apparently TKF appears to forgets that fact occasionally. THAT is how the Uncyclopedia works. If anyone disagrees with me about this I want to know.
   
==Bring out your dead! It's the UnSignpost!==
+
*Although A Time For Secrecy gave way to A Time For Unity, anyone who was simply on IRC at the right time would have been dealt into the game from the start.
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120614}}
 
   
--{{User:ChiefjusticeDS/sig}} 10:03, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
+
I agree the way things were handled were at times poor, I can see that some people were on IRC and some were not. I can see how that has cause friction and a lot of issues.
   
==Assume the position! it's the UnSignpost!==
+
*Everyone running the Fork is implicitly trustworthy, though users retain the option of cutting their hearts out with a spoon.
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120621}}
+
No one is implicitly trustworthy. So? I don't see that you are making a point here.
   
--{{User:ChiefjusticeDS/sig}} 00:42, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*The Fork is safer (for us and our texts) than Wikia, through some combination of poverty and anonymity. And, it is in Europe.
  +
I don't see that you are making a point here. it's safer because it's not openly trying to profit from putting the page on the net like Wikia are. That's rather simple and obvious. I do not see how you don't understand.
   
==Stop, drop and roll! It's the UnSignpost!==
+
*Give me a break!
  +
Where would you like it? On a serious note... I don't see that you are making any valid points here SPIKE. I did see in the forums that one particular user was a total asshole to you when you said you wanted to stay at Wikia, but I have seen nothing from you which explains your views really. What I'm seeing is you saying "I don't like how they did it and told me about it". {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>01:19, Feb 18</small></small>
   
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120705}}
+
==Did someone steal the moon? It was there last time I looked, and now it's gone.==
  +
*I just got to this wall of words which has been built without me knowing about it. First of all, and most importantly, msnbc says I haven't moved his pages to FreeUncy even though he gave me permission. Lazy bugger, tommyknocking layabout, I'm not going to move his pages, do it yourself if you can read. If I were you I'd put all my pregnent pages in one big package and drop it at their door and pregant the place up. msnbc is a treasure here, and if he or she wants to move hisher pages somewhere, don't expect help from the audience.
  +
*Is that it? I think that was all. As for the two uncy's, hahahahahahaha. Double our search engine hits, double our depository, give everyone a change to play in two large playgrounds, and enjoy the people and banter wherever it may be. I like the banter here more, but c'mon, there is no "here", everything and everybody is a click away just as they've always been. I'm adding my pages to both non-here places, but in my mental "feeling and knowingness" space I like writing here more, I don't know why, but all that means is there is a room in the mansion where I write that's as close to either place. When I feel comfortable with new edits on a page I move the page there (as you may notice I enjoy polishing my old pages, giving them the benefit of the great learning curve I've picked up writing here. Those older pages may get polished enough that I can move them, and that too comes on a feeling level).
  +
*Bottom line, I don't understand why more people aren't here, helping out the very good people who work the site. Spike is doing so much it surprises me that he is so amazingly important to this place, when awhile ago he took a long break and left us to our muddling. Puppy and Romartus and msnbc and Chief, some of the verterbre of uncy's backbone, have all stayed here and kept the lights on, and again, I don't know why anyone would be unhappy with that or mock it (I see much more anomisity at the new site, a great deal more, than here. Maybe it's one reason I like it here. THe other site even has regular updates in the unsignpost now about the war between the sites, which is a one-sided war as far as I've seen. They should instead be encouraging everone to come here and post their work, imnho, for I can see no negatives and all positives from having two active hives of the same bee family. And if anyone wants to ever sue uncyclopedia for slander or whatever,they will have to sue two places and get into a fight they don't want (see "John Scherer"). Now I will go to the other site just to look around, and come back and work on an old page I want to tweek and see if things come to me as I read it. Rooms in a house (and msnbc can carry his own books over to that library, thank you). [[user:Aleister|Adding to the wall of words]] 1:41 18-2-'13
  +
::Then I disagree with ya Al. I really can't see how two Uncyc's running together can work or be a good thing for Uncyclopedia as a whole. If the two wiki intended to go in different directions and do different things with different goals then maybe, but... Do either wiki intend to change anything significant? I don't think so. In my opinion what we have here now is a farce. The same project in two places. We have IPs editing both wiki now. Free Uncyc is now being found by the IPs. Real IPs 2! Terrible edits and everything! So... The articles on both wiki are progressively getting different. There are people editing one article on one wiki, not knowing that actually on the other wiki there is a better version which someone edited yesterday. Those guys could have collaborated, but never will because they do not know that there are two versions of Uncyc. Over time this will happen more and more. ... The suggestion that it's somehow going to be possible to run backwards and forwards between the two wiki keeping them in sync is IMO bonkers. Sure, we could do it for a few individual articles, but not the mass of general edits, especially the IP edits. Yesterday I did run through the VFD list on wikia Uncyc and huff the stuff at free Uncyc to keep that right, but still...
  +
::To answer your question Al. "I don't understand why more people aren't here". Well, a lot of users have now moved to free Uncyc and have no intention of editing here again so I guess that's why they are not helping here. I guess they do not mind what happens to the database here because they have free Uncyc and feel that in time Wikia will be embarrassed into stopping hosting Uncyclopedia. {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>02:17, Feb 18</small></small>
  +
:::Ah, there's the thing. Wikia seems to want to keep hold of this site, and I and others asked them over and over to just let it go, to let the community have it. But no deal. Jimbo Wales and the crew seemingly want to keep it with a huge warning label and then make sure that it stays way in front on the search engines. So there will be two, no matter what we all would ideally want to occur. Your point is that there should just be one site, and if wishes were horses. But if there were only the fork, Lyrthria would own it (if I understand you correctly), so all that would stand in-between the end of uncy and the deep blue sea would be one person, so I'm glad this back-up exists. The two will have different edits, and we already have different Writers of the Year and Uncyclopedians of the Year, so they are no longer the exact same site. See, we can go round and round on this, but the fact is there will be two sites for a long long time, and we should quit bumping our heads on that ceiling and talk about how to make both of them better, how and what to share, and move over the best articles to each site (not every edit, but features and other pages everyone agrees should be kept nearly the same). Talking and talking about things which are ideal loses the focus on what is real. I heard someone say once "Can't we all just get along?" and then they pounded him to the ground again. (p.s. I tried to find you at ats. you need 20 posts to make a thread, and I look forward to having those kind of discussions with you!!! I can unofficially adopt you, although there is no such thing there, just ask me any questions of how to best get around and look at things. More on that soon) [[user:Aleister|''Al'']] later that day
  +
::::Don't worry. I have read that now. I think I have read most of the stuff about this now. ... Oh I don't doubt that Wikia want to keep Uncyclopedia. They paid money for it. It makes money for them. They are obviously very embarrassed over this, and are trying to save face. It does not look good for them at all.
   
--{{User:ChiefjusticeDS/sig}} 08:16, July 5, 2012 (UTC)
+
::::Answer me this...
   
== Can you explain ==
+
:::What would happen if everyone here who is currently running this Wikia wiki all went to "free" Uncyc and abandoned this one? Lets say for 2 or 3 weeks. What would happen? The front page would not get updated. Massive vandal attacks not reverted, noting working... People would start to ask questions. They would have to lock the database if vandalism was not being reverted. Obviously I am not advocating vandalism. I'm just saying that it would happen if there were no sysops. I guess Wikia would want to appoint some sysops? If there was enough solidarity in the community and users refused to accept being a sysop on the Wikia site then... No Sysops. No Wikia Uncyclopedia. Are Wikia going to pay someone to do it? Um. No. How many users on this site now actually could do it that are not currently sysops and are active? Not many... If EVERYONE left it would be VERY embarrassing for Wikia. As it is they can just claim that free Uncyc is just a minor offshoot of Uncyclopedia, and that actually the wiki is running fine. From what I can tell the truth is actually very different. So... We the community do have the power to make Wikia shut the wiki down. If we decided that was what we wanted to do. From what I can tell the only reason that a consensus to do that in the community has not been reached is due to people not talking to each other properly.
  +
:::Tell me I'm wrong? {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>04:19, Feb 18</small></small>
  +
::::I understand why FUNC want WUNC to be abandoned to 'the crickets' to quote EMC but perhaps some of us prefer to have this Wikia option available and what Aleister said above. WUNC may have a much smaller user base but that is not to say that could change in future. Who knows. Meanwhile, those who contribute at FUNC do deserve their '[[wikipedia:Philadelphia Convention|Philadelphia Forum]]' (and I am not talking about cheese here). --{{User:Romartus/sig2}} 08:46, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::Romartus. I have no affinity with "FUNC". or WUNC or whatever it's called. I care not one jot about either. I want what's best for Uncyclopedia. Romartus why is having two Uncyclopedia better? Also, and just to clarify so you guys know... THE ONLY REASON WIKIA HAVE NOT BEEN FORCED TO CLOSE THIS WIKI SO FAR IS BECAUSE THE PROPLE NOW RUNNIG THIS WIKI ARE GIVING THEM THE POWER NOT TO. If users refused to sysop this wiki, Wikia would have to close it. You are keeping this wiki open. v
  +
:::::Guys. Please. Explain this to me. I have come back after months away ... The site is split into 2... I'm trying to sort this out, and you lot are saying "Because we want to" ? Eh? WTF? Let's have some REAL SOLID reasons please. Then maybe it's possible to fix this... {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>13:40, Feb 18</small></small>
  +
::::::What is to prevent Jupiterfox from coming back, becoming a synops, and turning this into a illiterate furry-secks wiki? Worse, if this wiki closes, and the fork goes down, where is it going to be hosted? Back on Wikia maybe? If so, Wikia would be in a perfect position to force the community to accept ads, whatever awful skin Wikia is forcing on everyone at the moment, et cetera. Maybe on another user-created site? But it took about a year to get the fork going, and a re-creation would have even less resources than the fork, and if the project was down, communication would be 10 times harder. --{{User:Mnbvcxz/sig5}} 14:18, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::Ahh. Mnbvcxz. A cool head, asking sensible questions! Thank you. Well...
  +
*What is to prevent Jupiterfox from coming back, becoming a synops, and turning this into a illiterate furry-secks wiki?
  +
Nothing. I hope that happens. Wikia were always going to try to keep hold of this wiki. It makes money for them. This was always going to be needed to be necessary. ... If Jupiterfox wishes to turn this into a furry-secks wiki then that would be fine with me. That would mean that this wiki was a furry-secks wiki, whereas func (is that the name?) was Uncyclopedia. It would become a different project. Currently the status quo is a farce. Also, I don't think that Wikia could keep this wiki running if they did not have sysops who were able to actually do the job like a real sysop.
  +
*Worse, if this wiki closes, and the fork goes down, where is it going to be hosted? Back on Wikia maybe?
  +
If the worst comes to the worst and the fork fails then Uncyclopedia will always be able to find a home somewhere. Anyone can take a copy of the database at anytime. Why do Wikia want to keep Uncyclopedia? Because it generates traffic to pages, and from that they make money. Why would anyone else agree to host Uncyclopedia in the future? Because they would make money out of doing it. We could and would find a new home. If the worst came to the worst the yes... We might end up where we are currently right now with Wikia hosting us. Again... Thank you Mnz. Did I answer your questions or do you still think I'm talking pants? I'm hoping people can see that this is... Um. MrN. Remember me? That guy right? I'm not trying to cause trouble here. I'm trying to help fix this...
  +
Here is something else to think about... Uncyclopedia is released under a license which says it can not be used for profit. Yet... Wikia make profit from Unyclopedia. So how is that possible? I think that "problem" is one reason why Wikia needed to put the warning sign up. Because they make money, it's more easy to sue them. Actually I think the entire Wikia uncycopedia database is possibly a breach of the creative commons license. I don't see how Wikia can host it legally. The license says they cant make money out of it. Yet they do... Hmm. {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>14:43, Feb 18</small></small>
   
When and why the rules changed? I try to live by them in my daily life and finding a third is like finding I have a new daddy. {{User:Syndrome/sig}} 18:54, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
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== Take it to email ==
   
==We've got boner for news! It's the UnSignpost!==
+
There's no benefit in our laundry being in the street. It won't help either site or the larger community. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|05:25 18 Feb 2013}}
  +
:Sorry no. People doing things in private, and not openly on the wiki is what got us into this mess in the first place. Also, if you had not noticed this ''is'' my talk page. Has Wikia Uncyclopedia reached the point now where a user is censored on their own talk page? {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>05:50, Feb 18</small></small>
  +
:::Nah. I just think the two of you are both reasonable enough to discuss this without mud-slinging, but you're both acting like… well… me. {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|06:57 18 Feb 2013}}
  +
::::Total bollocks. I'm not mud slinging, neither is Al. We are both just trying to sort out this mess. There are no sides here. Everyone is an Uncyclopedian {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>13:42, Feb 18</small></small>
  +
::::Getting back to what matters... What should be in the Uncyclopedia constitution? In addition, George Washington had it easy... {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>14:11, Feb 18</small></small>
   
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120719}}
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==Another Header==
   
--{{User:ChiefjusticeDS/sig}} 16:52, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
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To clarify:
   
== Get Your UnSignPost! Now More Respected Than The Town Crier! ==
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The $1,500 per year figure is from the Uncyclopedia web page, quoting [[Nl:En:Uncyclopedia:Donate]], emphasis mine, "Our 1.6 servers are '''expensive''' as they are projected to cost Uncyclopedia approximately '''$1,500 per year alone'''." This is their claim that they need $1,500 per year to run the servers.
   
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120726}}
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The law generally does not distinguish between non-profit and for-profit copyright violation claims. If the Fork is not legally organized as a non-profit corporation, or some sort of corporation, Lyrithya, or whoever's name is on it, is personally legally liable as the webhost.
   
--{{User:Oliphaunte/sig2}} 15:16, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
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The community should NOT be responding to DMCA take-down notices. Real-life legal matters should be addressed by the persons legally liable for such issues, or their paid agents, not a gang of teenagers on the internet. Due to how DMCA take-down notices work, it fight one involves going to court, and "fair-use" is legally a defense, not a right. And, we actually don't have valid fair-use claims on much of what we use here. On a side note, American copyright law is not as bad as copyright laws in some other countries.
   
==No need for eye protection, it's the UnSignpost!==
+
Uncyclopedia is larger and more well known than it was in the pre-Wikia days. Doing some research, {{U|Chronarion}}'s first edit was Jan 5, 2005. Chronarion announced Wikia's hosting of uncyclopedia on May 26, 2005 [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Uncyclopedia:Community_Portal?oldid=101339 here] That means uncyclopedia was only independently hosted for 4 1/2 months, and at the time, uncyclo's database was fast approaching the 100 Megabyte limit on the old server [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Uncyclopedia:Community_Portal?oldid=101335 according or Chronarion]. --{{User:Mnbvcxz/sig5}} 14:47, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:RE $1,500. I don't know. Sounds high to me. I have not spoken to the people on IRC yet. I have been putting that off... They obviously think they can do raise it. I know that there are a few individuals who have suggested the offer of financial support, but I don't know exactly what is going on. Obviously the guys who have done this think it's not a problem. I'm guessing that talk about this got lost in the jumble of talk and raised voices while all this was going on. I think we just need to get the right info to the right people on this...
  +
*The law generally does not distinguish between non-profit and for-profit copyright violation claims
  +
So we are talking about "copyright violation" claims here now... I don't understand why you think that at all Mnz. Let's say you wrote a book and started to sell it... I then all the words in the book on my house. But then anther guy came along and copied your book, started printing it, and selling it. Who are you going to want to sue first, and who will the law take a more dim view of?
  +
On the issue of legal matters... My issue of the entire Wikia Uncyc database being a breach of the creative license continues to stand. I have yet to see anyone explain how it's possible for a company who make money from hosting wiki to host a wiki which has has a non for profit license.
   
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120809}}
+
If somone is not making somthing which is money out of something how can you copyyou make something and sell it, and then I make something
  +
*The community should NOT be responding to DMCA take-down notices.
  +
Why? Maybe there are also some people who actually know what they are talking about on Uncyc?
  +
*...that means uncyclopedia was only independently hosted for 4 1/2 months, and at the time
  +
Back in 2005 the content of Uncyclopedia was FAR more controversial than it is today. [[UN:CBN]] rules had not been established and you were basically allowed to write anything about anything. There was some shocking stuff going on. Attack articles on kids. Dodgy pictures of kids. All sorts... Were there legal problems for Chron? I don't think so. Our content and rules are far stricter now, so the issues would be less. Also... Sickipedia... ED... There are many other sites who do this sort of thing fine, and they contain more offensive content that Uncyclopedia. [http://blog.zaori.org/archives/15 Seen this?] ? I wonder if that zaiger guy really is the guy commenting at the bottom really is the guy who set up the new ED wiki. If ED can do it... I think Uncyclopedia can. I don't see why you don't? {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>16:19, Feb 18</small></small>
  +
:DMCA take-down notices are somewhat different than traditional copyright issues. The webhost is required to remove the offending material almost on request. The person uploading the material can then challenge the take-down notice, and the if the entity filing the takedown notice doesn't retract, they fight it out in court. Although the system does somewhat favor the takedown notice-filer, the upshot of this toward the acused copyright violator is the copyright issue can be resolved without turning it into a literal federal case. However, the webhost can't claim fair-use unless said webhost wants to "own" the liability for the potential copyright violation. Copyright law does not give "non-profit" organizations the right to use anything and everything, contrary to what some people think.
   
--{{User:ChiefjusticeDS/sig}} 07:07, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
+
:Regarding ED, the various webhosts have faced some legal issues, although those may have been due to cyber-attacks rather than content issues. Girlvinyl had some run-ins with the FBI, and received a good bit of real-life harassment. Ryan Cleary was arrested by Scotland Yard, although that appears to be due to unrelated to his role as ED host. And lets not forget recent e-Martyr [[Aaron Swartz]] and his legal issues with non-profit copyright violations.
   
== Joe Colton article deletion ==
+
:My point isn't ZOMG! COPYRIGHT LAWS!!!1! You can actually get away with alot if you know how to game the system. But you must know the rules of the system, which implies that you must know that '''there is a system and it has rules''' rather or not you like the system and its rules. You can, for example, watch copyright violations on Youtube with impunity. However, torrent-ing the same material could result in legal trouble. Assuming or pretending that you are immortal is quickest way to get yourself killed. Telling someone to "go fuck themselves" when they give you a DMCA takedown notice, as some recent admin candidates have [[nl:en:Forum:Legal Question...|suggested]], or otherwise pretending that you are above the law is not going to end well.
   
hi there, I have moved the article I created at [[General Joseph Brady Colton]] to [[General Joseph B. Colton]] and all that remains on that page is a redirect and since nothing links to the original page it should be deleted could you do this for me?
+
:Wikia knows what it can and can't do without getting itself sued out of existence. I don't think the fork does. --{{User:Mnbvcxz/sig5}} 16:54, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
:Added to [[QVFD]] {{User:PuppyOnTheRadio/sig3|02:01 16 Aug}}
+
::Hea Mnz. Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. RE the DMCA take-down notices and that forum. Yes, I can see how someone reading that forum could get the idea that the fork can not handle itself legally. Some of the comments made in that forum bother me greatly, however... I think that Lyrithya answered the question of the forum when she said:
  +
:::"If folks send us a takedown notice, if it's reasonable we'll probably just take whatever it is down, replace it with something else. No big deal."
  +
::From reading that forum I think it's clear that comments like "We're Uncyclopedia. We don't negotiate legal settlements" from TKF it would be easy to get the wrong idea about the forks intentions. As I have said, I have not been into IRC, but I think I know what is going on.... Actually, in reality obviously what Lyrithya said is correct. We would react to takedown notices on a case by case bases depending on the situation. Clearly we would not just say "fuck you" to all legal issues. Perhaps TKF is saying what he is saying in that forum as he wants people to think that is what we would do. Perhaps he hopes that by suggesting the position he is then perhaps Uncyc might get a few less people "trying it on" than they would otherwise. For example all major governments have a strict "no negotiation with terrorists" policy. If you ask them they will say that they will never pay a ransom, or submit to terrorists demands. They have to. If they did not, they would get lots more terrorist demands. But... The truth is that countries pay ransoms and give into terrorist demands all the time. They just don't like to talk about it. ;)
   
== ChiefjusticeDS enjoys buttsex: The UnSignpost! ==
+
::I doubt that TKF really is that naive... Although I have questioned Lyrithya's judjement in the past over some matters, on this I think she knows what she is doing. Also, it's not like it's only Lyrithya. We have the entire Uncyc userbase as a support network.
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120823}} {{User:Frosty/sig3}} 08:23, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==Set phasers to frag! It's the UnSignpost!==
+
::Regarding ED.. So nothing has happened to ED because of its content? I think we both know that Uncyc's content is less likely to be legally challenged than ED's. They are fine on that score, so Uncyc should be to right? Actually... Thinking about it, Carlb has hosted a mirror of Uncyc for years. I think he runs that out of a PC in his bedroom. No problems for him 2.
  +
::Talking about "Wikia knows what it can do"... Well... Asside from the fact that Wikia are currently making money out of content which is released under a non profit license... Let's pretend I'm Michelle Obama. There are two copies of Uncyclopedia on the internet both of them have an article about me which I don't like. Am I going to be more pissed off with a website which is non profit and run by volunteers, or a website which is profiting financially taking the piss out of me?
  +
::I'm aware that people are getting very stressed over this... I have a forum post planned at free uncyc in which I'm going to address a number of issues... From what I can see... One big issue here has been communication as some users spend a lot of time in IRC and some don't... Again, thanks for the reply. Mnz. {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>20:32, Feb 19</small></small>
  +
:::I don't think the average person cares if the webhost (not the site) is profit or "non-profit". Almost all webhosting is done commerically, facebook makes money off of ads, youTube makes money off of ads, as does Yahoo, google, myspace, et cetera. In point of fact, the fork IS earning money off of ad revenue according to its donation page. This wiki has no ads, not even the ad-once-removed spotlight ads. The other site is begging for donations, this one isn't. From outward appearances, this site looks less commercial than the fork.
  +
:::More to the point, Wikia is not generating the content here. If I were to libel someone on facebook, they would get mad at me, rather than facebook for earning 32 cents of ad revenue on the libelous comment.
  +
:::I don't think Lyrithya is going to go with the "go fuck yourself" route. However, I'm not sure she knows how to dot all the ?I's and cross all the T's in responding to various legal threats. --{{User:Mnbvcxz/sig5}} 14:05, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*I don't think the average person cares if the webhost (not the site) is profit or "non-profit".
  +
I do. A lot. For proof, look at the history of Uncyclopedia. Look at when Wikia dicked us around, and look at how that affected the number of users on Uncyc. I think you will find that a lot of people were very upset about the site moving from .org to .com. A lot left. People understood that this meant that Wikia would be using Uncyc's traffic to make it look like Wikia have more pages to advertise on than they really do. Do you think that the warning notice has not made a difference to the users/readers of this site? The Uncyc community is not like that of facebook, youtube or whatever. Generally Uncyc readers are more sensitive to certain issues than others. Also... For additional proof that users don't like to be on a for profit wiki look the users who have returned to the new site. DAWG, Brad, Mooses. Kip the Dip is now much more active. Many users appear to have come alive all of a sudden. As time goes on, and more people realise that the fork is there I suspect more people will go back to it. If they don't now it's because they don't know the fork exists yet.
  +
*From outward appearances, this site looks less commercial than the fork.
  +
Hardly. I would think that most people using this site know that Wikia is a commercial company. Tell you what... Ask Sannse this... If the fork puts a link to the wikia site in their site notice, will wikia put up a site notice linking to the fork? I think not. I suspect that Wikia know very well that most people, given the choice would choose to go to the NFP site.
  +
*I don't think Lyrithya is going to go with the "go fuck yourself" route. However, I'm not sure she knows how to dot all the ?I's and cross all the T's in responding to various legal threats.
  +
You appear to be assuming that it's just Lyrithya who would deal with any issues which came up. She would not. She would have the support of the entire Uncyc community. ED manage fine, as do sickipedia. I suspect that Uncyclopedia is actually far more able to handle potential issues than ED or sickipedia. I also suspect that Uncyclopedia is less likely to need to handle any issues which might come up as the content here is less likely to cause a challenge. Done a google search on Uncyclopedia recently? The fork is now 4th on the list...
  +
I actually have a few other question which I would like to ask you via e-mail, and not on the wiki. If you are up for this, please e-mail me on mrn9k@yahoo.co.uk {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>15:58, Feb 20</small></small>
  +
*:My issue wasn't if the editor cared that Wikia is a for-profit company. My issue is that the maker of legal threats doesn't care. --{{User:Mnbvcxz/sig5}} 17:04, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
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::I think you are wrong, but you decided not to e-mail me so I'm going to give up. Take care. {{User:MrN8999/sig}} <small><small>15:29, Feb 21</small></small>
   
{{Uncyclopedia:UnSignpost/20120906}}
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{{:UnSignpost/20130408}} {{User:ScottPat/sig}} 15:24, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
   
--{{User:ChiefjusticeDS/sig}} 10:51, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
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{{:UnSignpost/20130504}}{{User:ScottPat/signature}}

Latest revision as of 16:36, May 4, 2013

“I have to be careful what I say so as not to advertise the new wiki. At any rate, in January of 2013, the then-current userbase of this wiki made a decision to "fork" to our own independent domain and host, which I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link here or not. We did this for various reasons, which can all be read about in a lot of forums and things. I'll probably link those forums here later when I can be arsed to. For the time being, I just want to express that most of my efforts toward Uncyclopedia in the future will be going into the "forked" version, which I like to call the "real" version, for lack of a better term. I still intend to check my talk page on this, the Wikia version, just in case someone might stumble upon it and ask me a question about something or whatever. I intend to stick around here long enough to at least attempt to help smooth the transition of this version into the eventual new community, if one does in fact come around, and then if things take off here I can rest a little easier knowing that things are being taken care of. Or, if things don't take off here, I can rest a little easier knowing that I can just assume people will start coming to the new version of Uncyclopedia instead, and I won't have to worry too much about people coming here and getting the wrong idea of the wiki if it turns into a vandal-magnet.

But seriously, check the new version out. If you want to.”
~ MrN9000 on having copied that from RAHB

MrN9000SouthPark
MrN9000SouthPark2
Welcome! This is the talk page of MrN9000. If you'd like to post a message, CLICK HERE to start a new topic.

Rules of engagement:

  • Try to avoid getting engaged, it can be very expensive.
  • Sign and date all your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~).
  • Put new text under old text.

Previous rants: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 7 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18


Please do not watch.
Or this.
Loenard Cohen.
Sacha Baron Cohen



edit You're back

Its good to see that you are still alive. --Mn-z 15:27, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Hea dude. Yep. Kinda anyway. At the moment I'm jumping between the two sites a bit. Such a shame that apparently some users have fallen out with each other to the extent that even now when the community has the ability to be non profit, some users still choose to stay with a profit based host.
Obviously some dicks have been being particularly so... I hope there is some way to sort this mess out. IMO As things stand now, it's not good for Uncyclopedia. I would much prefer if e veryone was together. :( MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 11:05, Feb 11
Ah, but you must have missed Mn-Z's two amazing healing posts on the forum:A suggestion, his two new sections near the bottom. Masterpieces of perception and a calming of the waters. Maybe you should go forum hopping, and check out the one on the vote on the new warning label, but that's near the bottom too. And I don't know if wikia is making any money off of us, they're just hosting and trying to cope with having us around, so calling it a profit maker in regards to uncy is giving the devil its due without the devil earning it. Remember our work on Gandhi? Good times. Aleister 11:19 11-19 1919
Thanks dude, I will look around more. One thing I DO know... WIKIA MAKES / WANTS TO MAKE MONEY OUT OF UNCYCLOPEDIA.
Although... Apparently ... "Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony". I think I'm going to make a cup of tea... :) MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 11:32, Feb 11
I have doubts about the nfp aspect of the fork. I one worked for an nfp organisation that was designed to run fundraisers for other nfp organisations. I left there when I discovered that one of their projects didn't work out as well as they hoped, and the organisation they were raising money for lost $45,000 as a result. Since then I've been suspect of organisations that won't disclose their finances but claim nfp status. I've asked numerous times, and been met with dead silence every time I've asked. Add to that the vanity aspect of the press release, I'm suspect.
Yes - I'll look a gift horse in the mouth when it means that otherwise I have to surrender the steed that I know and - while I don't trust it - I know how it works.                               Puppy's talk page11:37 11 Feb
It was a good "feel good" "press release (air quote)" and had nice sentiment and hope for the future. The problem was it wasn't a press release. I offered to help them with the press release, to write and edit it, because I used to do lots of press releases. They weren't interested, and when it was sent out (if it was sent out in a press release form) it attracted no press, as I suspected it wouldn't once I saw it. So yes, the people "running" it, in some respects, don't know what they're doing, and in others are doing a very good job so far. But as the sage Msn-Bc might have said, can't we all just get along, and everyone wash both hands and not leave a pile of dirt in between the fingers? Al same day
It was a terrible press release, because there's no way known any self respecting journal would print it. And it's symptomatic of my concerns. For the last month we have had the bulk of the community working on the content warning. We've discussed, honed, tweaked and churned it into something worthwhile as a “front page” of the site. That press release was written by one person - or maybe two - and discarded any community input, and sent out as representative of a community. Personally I like to think I know what is good for the community, but I'm not arrogant enough to say that I represent the whole, and I accept what the community decides on when we go to a vote. I don't think any individual - or group of elite - can represent the community properly when huge decisions and movements happen outside of scrutiny. I don't even like talking on IRC because there's no accountability. And without knowing the inner workings I'm left to surmise, and I cannot see any way that the fork can be financially self-supporting without going down a financially focused path.
Without respecting the members of the community, and with an inner sanctum making arbitrary decisions that affect the whole, it cannot work as a wiki. And the structure of it resembles too closely the structure of another comedy wiki that eventually got sold to a commercial interest and destroyed. And by dividing the community we had, the two separate halves are no way near the strength of the whole.                               Puppy's talk page12:44 11 Feb
I second Puppy. As I've said in the Forum and elsewhere: If you think Profit is no basis for creative writing, wait until you see how Loss works. (Would you guys mind if I renamed that Forum from "A suggestion"? We might want to find it some day.) Spıke ¬ 13:04 11-Feb-13

Guys... I don't give a

File:Image-George M Bush.jpg
...about the press release...

In time Google, and the internet WILL divert to wherever the CABAL is. Yes. There is a (one) CABAL. It is... Wait. I lied. There is no Cabal. Obviously. However, Uncyclopedia IS wherever that thing is. Should it exist. Which it does not. But if it did, that is what would define Uncyclopedia. ...

MrN9000SouthPark

...if I know you lot (and I do a little) I bet this is really (mostly) about people being dicks. Specifically people being dicks to other people. Often causing those people to be dicks themselves, which is then great for the person who was a dick to start with because now everyone is being a dick so they don't get the blame. So...

Wallace in wrong trousers
What should we do?

As it stands.... The

Status quo 2005
Is not great.

So...

You go first down the hole!
We need to look for the whole again.

Because apparently people are being dicks on Uncyclopedia.

Penisland
Who would have thought it?

What shall we do?

Future quo
Look what will happen to the Status Quo!

How can we prevent this? MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 13:35, Feb 11

Just for that...
                              Puppy's talk page01:48 11 Feb
That proves nothing! I just found out that in 2011 Status Quo did something in collaboration with Cliff Richard. Don't say you have not been warned. MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 13:55, Feb 11
That video was 2012. Which shows that the Status Quo has gone off the Cliff. Which brings me back to my earlier point…                               Puppy's talk page02:12 11 Feb
Your point was that Uncyclopedia is and will always be run by dicks? MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 14:28, Feb 11
We should hang a sign in the window saying “Under no management”.                               Puppy's talk page09:43 12 Feb

edit Common.css

Thank you for installing me as an Admin for the rendering of RecentChanges, though having to have my name in CAPITALS has always sufficed for me (as "Spike" has been taken by a non-contributor since 2006). But Simsilikesims was opped in the same vote and should suffer the same fate, misery liking company. Spıke ¬ 15:40 11-Feb-13

I'm not sure it worked actually. You are not showing up in bold on RC for me. Maybe something to so with SPIKE vs Spike? I don't know. Anyway, you know the place you need to edit now, so I guess I will leave it in your hands... MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 15:45, Feb 11
Oh. Nope. Working now. You are bold. The hamster must have moved in the wheel... MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 15:47, Feb 11

May have to do with clearing your browser cache (Ctrl-F5). Names of Admins have never been shown in bold on my PC; I run with a ton of local CSS, but the same is true when I switch it off. Could you describe exactly what comes up in boldface for you? PS--I saw to boldfacing Simsie. Spıke ¬ 21:29 11-Feb-13

Just noticed your second reply there! Yea. Only on Recent Changes this applies to... Whenever I see the name of an admin on RC their name is in bold. MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 00:19, Feb 12

Not I! I vaguely recall I disliked this effect and wrote CSS to disable it, but I can find no such thing either on Uncyclopedia or on my PC. Spıke ¬ 00:25 12-Feb-13

You might be smoking something. Sometimes that can makes things appear bold, or blurry. Or you could log out... That would also work. MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 00:33, Feb 12

edit Piri Reis

I don't have the background to understand the sentence you added to Great Library of Alexandria--though your finale, that "obviously, no one takes them seriously," makes it sound like a big inside joke I am not in on. This would be okay as a photo caption, but without some links to us ignoramuses, it's not an improvement. Spıke ¬ 18:32 11-Feb-13

Why you are talking about "Inside jokes" I got no idea... Piri Reis made maps which were copies of older maps. Some of those maps would have been in the library at some point. The point is that those (very old) maps I speak of do actually exist, and they do actually (kinda) show what I suggested they do. I suspect I'm not the only person who would know that and appreciate it. If you know better remove it. MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 18:49, Feb 11

Of course I don't know how many heads this will fly over. But I have now read about Piri Reis on Wikipedia and still don't get the joke; though in fairness, it was Aleister who set the randomness tone for this section. Spıke ¬ 21:29 11-Feb-13

Random? Random you say? Have you ever baked a zebra? MrN, I saw you doing the feature run at the fork. Did you read my excellllent page about the guy who invented soap? Yes? And you say you hated it? Oh Jeez, this is horrible. It's on vfh here too. This is devestating. Al sigh
Me? Hea. That could have been any MrN9000 you saw over there. Just because I happen to be called MrN9000 here does not necessarily mean that (that) (slippery when wet) individual is the same as this individual. Wait. I actually have no idea even which wiki I'm typing into. This is getting ridiculous. OK! OK! I will go read it! Also... Yes. 12. MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 00:08, Feb 12
RE Piri Reis. An article about the great library of Aleister would be random without mention of Piri Reis. I guess the "joke" is that the entire world is not bothered about the fact that a map has been found (which would have come from the library) which shows the coastline of a country (Antarctica) which was undiscovered at the time (found it 200 years later), and also under (and is still under) thousands of feet of ice. MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 00:16, Feb 12

You see? you had only to explain it to me. Spıke ¬ 00:26 12-Feb-13

I did? Oh, I did. ... You have all the makings of... Um... Yea. MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 00:31, Feb 12

edit Edits to UnNews:Facebook introduces ‘Nookie’

Yo bro! You're always welcome & encouraged to join in. But don't forget to edit in a "For" on the voting. I'm glad we're working together again - hang in there, mate! BTW: This short vid is BETTER than going to a live gig: Great LIVE Sound Quality--Funnybony Icons-flag-th Agnideva-small.jpg AGT-logo-small.jpg 14:29, Feb 12

Cool. I made a few more changes to UnNews:Facebook introduces ‘Nookie’. I might have missed the point with the bit about CIA-FEMA, and where I changed that you might want to put it back if I did it wrong. I think the last 3 paragraphs could do with a bit more of a chop back also as it's a bit rambling in places but I could not figure out what to remove. It's cool as it is though. :) Nice article Bro. I remember when this happened and I thought... Oh I should really go onto Uncyc to do an article about it... But you already had done an awesome job! MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 15:01, Feb 12

edit Thanks for the Tweaks and Tickles

Very much appreciate your assistance and adds in recent articles! Thanks!! --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 07:16, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Loved the idea behind the horse meat one. MrN Icons-flag-gb HalIcon.png WhoreMrn.png Fork you! 00:59, Feb 15

edit This...

I have to be careful what I say so as not to advertise the new wiki. At any rate, in January of 2013, the then-current user base of this wiki made a decision to "fork" to our own independent domain and host,,,

Actually, they didn't. There was a forum started saying "We are moving" but no consent from the community sought. There was a vote back in February 2012 asking if we wanted to move, which resulted in an outstanding "maybe, but we need to have an alternative to move to." The creation of that alternative was done without any community discussion. The announcement of the "move" was made only a week or so prior to the "move" itself, and any feedback relating to it was shot down in flames by the instigators of those behind re-creating the content offsite. In short, the statement "the then current userbase" means that regular contributors not included in any of the decision making were considered not to be part of the userbase.

...which I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link here or not...

Yes - but we ask that you at least be honest in regards to what you're actually linking to. And please don't start coming here to purely act as an advertisement for an alternative site.

...We did this for various reasons, which can all be read about in a lot of forums and things. I'll probably link those forums here later when I can be arsed to. For the time being, I just want to express that most of my efforts toward Uncyclopedia in the future will be going into the "forked" version, which I like to call the "real" version, for lack of a better term....

It's also referred to as the "new" version, despite the content being identical when it was launched. The accurate and non-emotive term would be "independently hosted" version, or "independent" to be brief. (Or “Indy” for pants style brevity.) The same as this is the "Wikia hosted" or "Wikia" site. (Personally I like enunco and unwicom as they are abbreviations of the URLs, but that hasn't taken off.)

...I still intend to check my talk page on this, the Wikia version, just in case someone might stumble upon it and ask me a question about something or whatever. I intend to stick around here long enough to at least attempt to help smooth the transition of this version into the eventual new community, if one does in fact come around, and then if things take off here I can rest a little easier knowing that things are being taken care of...

Sadly, many of the users who are now editing predominantly at the independent version are sticking around here predominantly to troll, or otherwise be a nuisance. RAHB has barely been back here at all. BB came back purely to troll and spruik the independent site, and when asked to stop he took it as an attack, and has now been banned. EMC decided to start changing site navigation tools to redirect to the independent version. (There is a very simple way of stopping all traffic directly from this site to the fork, with about three lines of code. Which means if Wikia wanted to completely stop all links to the independent site, it would have been done by now. Of course, any links from the independent site coming through to here have been changed, no matter the context. So Administration at the independent site are being more authoritarian than Wikia are.)

...Or, if things don't take off here, I can rest a little easier knowing that I can just assume people will start coming to the new version of Uncyclopedia instead, and I won't have to worry too much about people coming here and getting the wrong idea of the wiki if it turns into a vandal-magnet.

I though being a vandal magnet was part of what we were about here.
Having said all that, if you choose to go over to the indy site and not return here, then have fun. Sadly most of the people who I would have trusted to keep this site strong have done much the same. If you want to do what Al has done and bounce between the two, then you're always welcome here. (Although MrN8999 is more welcome - I always thought he was a better writer.)                               Puppy's talk page04:09 16 Feb
8999 here. Remember me? That guy right? ... That 9000 fellow sysop protected his user page to keep us out, and banned Cajek to make sure. What an Asshole. I always preferred 9001 actually. Quiet fellow. Hard worker, and virtually no fixation on pants. Of any kind. Pantaloons, bloomers, or britches.

On a non garment related issues:

I have read around most of the forums and such now, but I'm still not clear on exactly what your objection to the "New" wiki is? That you don't like how it was set up and announced? Yea, I read the forum that happened in recently... I don't understand why that is an objection to what it is now though. You said that you had asked questions of the new site, but they had been ignored or not well answered. My questions were answered.

Status quo 2005
...

What questions did you ask and not get an answer for? What are the issues I do not understand? Please explain it to me? MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 21:36, Feb 16

There's an emotive aspect to these discussions, sadly, as people get emotional relating to it. For me there's too much about the new site structure that just isn't open enough for me to understand, which makes it harder to trust those that hold the power over there. And I don't mean trusting their intentions - I'm confident that the Indy site was created with high ideals in mind. The issue is that I don't know who owns the rights to the URL, and therefore who can then sell it. I'm also unaware of how the hosting is structured, so if it's possible that the host could introduce a commercial aspect. And I'm unaware of how any income made from donations/merchandise sale/etc. is structured to be put back into supporting the community. And what worries me the most is what will happen if (and likely when) the cost of supporting the site hosting exceeds the amount that the community are willing to put into it's hosting.
And while I dislike having an external censor who controls the content we host, I also dislike not having guidelines on what we host. The problem is that the less we have in relationship to guidelines on “acceptable content” and the more financial burden this puts on those that are currently supporting it, the more likely we are to run down the path that ED did in the past. Even the Wikia site is more like Illogicopedia than it used to be, and elements of ED memeism and sickopedia stupidity keep creeping in.
Wikia hosting is not perfect, but it's a devil I know and understand. Every time I ask about these other issues I get stonewalled or told I'm just trying to destroy that site. I honestly don't agree with the “There can be only one” mentality. But I'm hesitant to add any support to a site where I don't know where my work will end up or in what way it will be used. Especially when I'm told on one hand my opinion is worthless, but on the other hand my writing is worthwhile and free to be used in any way they see fit.
I want both sites to succeed. I just can't see the viability of the independent site. And until I know I can trust it to survive and remain non-commercial, I don't want to submit any writing there. (Although I'm still happy to natter with people and give technical help where I can.)
In the meantime, I know this site works. And I have enough invested in this site staying afloat that I refuse to abandon it for a site that I can't rely on.                               Puppy's talk page04:12 17 Feb
What Pup said. Also, I really don't think the fork is able to handle real-world legal issues. So, even if the website hosts act is good faith, and the community is able to give $1,500 a year, the whole thing could suddenly disappear because someone mucked up a DMCA takedown notice. In that case, all your donations, and the domain name, will go to the highest bidder, and the edit history over there may be lost. If you don't want your articles to go missing, then I would suggest having them in as many places as possible. I gave Aleister permission to move my articles to the fork, but they haven't been moved over there for whatever reason. --Mn-z 08:11, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
I have read lots of stuff around the wiki now, but have not been into IRC. From what I can tell a lot of organizing the "fork" was done on IRC. I can also see that in some cases the way that decisions were made, and then how those decisions was communicated to others was poor at times. Reading through the forums some comments in particular were particularly poorly made. I'm not surprised that some users took aversion to what looked a lot like someone telling them what to do. It was like... "OK guys! we are leaving. k thanks bye.". No discussion. The decision had already been made for you. I can see how it kinda looked like that. I think Romartus said something along those lines. For the record, I remember talking about this back in... Um. 2009?

OK. Actual issues:

  • The issue is that I don't know who owns the rights to the URL, and therefore who can then sell it.

This is what RAHB said to me:

“ The server we're using now is owned by a server-lending sort of company in Europe or something. I forgot the name, somebody else knows. I believe that most things are currently in Lyrithya's name. She also is doing a great deal of remote server administration, as are Legoktm and wctaiwan (a person whose account I can't find at the moment and probably goes by a different name). Bizzeebeaver above, Skizzerz and Jack Phoenix round out the very technical side of things. As well as a user on freenode that I know as Emufarmers. EMC (who now goes by the nick Hotadmin4u69, it's a long story, don't ask) is running most of our social media and the Uncyclopedia store. Zombiebaron and I have been...uh, observing the process I suppose, as we both have server access but no idea what to actually use it for. On the less technical end of things, Zombiebaron and TKF are the most active 'crats, and Dawg has also made a triumphant return recently. Zombiebaron is supreme dictator of the world for life. The server is being paid for by some generous users and hopefully by donations and store purchases in the future. The guarantee that we won't become a for-profit site generally comes from three factors. One is that, for what it's worth, I put my utmost trust in the above listed users and their commitment to keeping the site's integrity in-tact. Two is that legally things are much cleaner for us if we remain non-profit anyway. And three is that servers and bandwidth are expensive and any money that comes in will need to go to that stuff first and foremost, and then second and second-most. A number of forums detail users' concerns with this and administration's reassurances. The main function of this new Uncyclopedia is to be Uncyclopedia by and for the Uncyclopedians. User suggestions are taken into account when dictating how to use the resources at our disposal and users are encouraged to donate to server upkeep. Also, if I'm not mistaken, we're currently working on getting some sort of Non-Profit "organization" sort of registration or something, although I might be mistaken. Lyrithya would probably best be able to answer anything more specific than I've already said and correct my glaring errors.”
~ RAHB
To me this means that one of the Uncyc admins owns it. Someone had to. Would you like to? In my opinion the person who has actually put their name to this is rather brave. If anything did go wrong with the site, then the person who owns the url is likely to be in the firing line. So what is to stop them selling it to make money? Nothing. They could. Well, if they did. We would kill them. We would go to their home and cut their heart out with a spoon. It would not be like when Chronarion sold the site last time. He made a mistake. He trusted Wikia not to make drastic changes to Uncyclopedia, and they did. But... That would not happen again. Due to this situation being different, and also the issue with the spoon. :)
  • I'm also unaware of how the hosting is structured, so if it's possible that the host could introduce a commercial aspect.

Well... There is a server. If the site ever becomes commericial we would cut out the heart of appropriate people with the previously discussed spoon. The site will need to generate enough money to run. Donations and merchendising will do this. I'm confident of this, and I know that there are a few individuals who will (if necessary) stump up the cash required to run the site. We are NOT ED. I don't know why you think that moving away from Wikia will make us more shock and awe. The site was fine before Wikia. It will be fine without it. Why would it change all of a sudden?

  • And I'm unaware of how any income made from donations/merchandise sale/etc. is structured to be put back into supporting the community.

What information would you like? Maybe there should be some kinda Uncyclopedia constitution drawn up about this? Please write it? Please? ??? Please? I will let you sleep with my sister is you agree to this...

  • Per Mnz... What Pup said. Also, I really don't think the fork is able to handle real-world legal issues
Chronarion managed it. What issues can't we handle?
  • Is able to give $1,500 a year,

I don't think it's $1,500 a year. I thought that was total setup cost, not per year.

  • the whole thing could suddenly disappear because someone mucked up a DMCA takedown notice. In that case, all your donations, and the domain name, will go to the highest bidder, and the edit history over there may be lost. If you don't want your articles to go missing, then I would suggest having them in as many places as possible.

On the legal side... I'm not a lawyer, but i have slept with a few, so I think that makes me an expert. :) My understanding is that Wikia hosted Uncyclopedia is far more vulnerable to legal attack than "free" Uncyclopedia because Wikia make money out of Uncyclopedia. Because wikia are a commercial money making company who are making money out of hosting these pages when someones complains about these pages the law listens more. For example... If I write a book saying you are gay, and sell it, and people laugh at you and I make money because of that, then that's worse than if I write a book saying you are gay, but give it away. Anyway, I don't totally understand it, you probably actually need to be gay to understand it. However, I do see the sense in it. A non profit making site has got to be harder to attack legally than a profit making one. If "free" Uncyc gets a DMCA takedown notice then I guess the community will deal with it in an open forum. How much better is that than Wikia just telling us they have decided for us. Do we have the balls to actually handle this kinda stuff? Yes. We do. I think so. That's why we did this. The way I see it.... The WORST that could happen is that if for some reason the Uncyc community was not able to host the site any more then it would eventually end up going back to some random wiki host. Like Wikia. Yep. They would take us back. I bet you. There are others who would I suspect. Because.... We make money for them, which is why they want to keep this wiki open now. Anyone can take a copy of the database. I have done a few times. Lots of people will always do this for Uncyc. There is a mirror anyway. The content of the database of Uncyc will never "die". Where it is hosted might change, but someone will always be willing to host us for the same reason that Wikia do not want to let go of the site now. Money.

  • ... And until I know I can trust it to survive and remain non-commercial, I don't want to submit any writing there.

That's why I'm here. I want to convince you to do that. How can I? If we wrote a "constitution" and got acceptance of that at "free" Uncyc would that do it? MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 23:04, Feb 17

edit a new header

Large sections make it a nightmare to write on my phone.

This NFP organisation that has been established is a concern, as the only way I know it exists is via heresay. But a genuine charter, T&Cs, and structure is important to establish. Because that's what will give us an assurance that unfettered we won't become another ED. Both sites complain about arbitrary and harsh decisions made by admins on the other. Without having a solid guideline to point back to and say “This decision was made because of this” saves us from having that criticism. HTBFANJS covers a lot of it, but is limited due to the fact that it's more a manual of style than anything else.

I was under the impression from my reading that the server was hosted in Canada, but I could be completely wrong on that. It may simply be that most of the work on the server prior to 5th January came from Canada. Because ZB has been busy.

As an aside: The mirror is a very limited resource, by the way. It's only updated manually, and that's generally done by me. I'm having enough issues getting on here to do the little that I do as it is. And now I'm stuck with the problem of what gets updated from which site. It looks as though Carlb has decided that the Indy site is the “official” site, but his dislike or Wikia borders on the fanatical, so I give little credence to his perspective.

It also operates in the principle of “we don't delete unless it's UN:CB or UN:CM”. Which meant that I could revive Point-Counterpoint, so there is an advantage to that. But it also means if we needed to recreate the site from the mirror we'd have the nightmare job first of clearing out all the deadwood. (Which I have a long-term solution for, but that's an off-site discussion.)

But back to main point: If the new site has a charter, and is funded by an officially registered NFP that keeps it separate from individual manipulation, that takes out the personal element from the reins of control, and I'll happily edit there more regularly. I'll continue to work here predominantly though, and then further down the list will be the mirror. And it'll mean that I'll actually be happy to leave my existing content there. But we really need people like yourself and Al to try and remain as impartial as possible relating to issues between the two wikis. Otherwise both will suffer due to fighting between the two. (And we need people like SPIKE and BB to focus on one wiki over the other as well, but we already have them.)                               Puppy's talk page12:01 18 Feb 2013

Thanks Pup. Uncyclopedia is my favorite place on the net, and currently I see the community being ripped in half. That is not good. ... I hope I'm impartial. I do however have views about what the best thing is for Uncyclopedia. I'm pretty sure that does not involve the userbase being ripped in half...


I have done a bit of reading up about NFP organisations and from what I can tell it's mostly about tax and such. I don't know if the new site has "official" NFP status, or what that would mean if it did. But... Surely whatever setup there was there must in the end be an element of trust. I guess someone is going to be taking money from the merchandising and donations and whoever is doing this could potentially rip us off. Even if free Uncyc was registered as a NFP then that would not prevent them doing that. You said "takes out the personal element from the reins of control". I don't understand what you mean by this. Surely whatever happens someone somewhere has got to be trusted to handle the money?


I guess the thing which would stop free Uncyc from being used for profit would be the same thing which stopped Wikia from plastering adds all over the wiki like they always wanted to... That thing is us. If whoever has the power to abuse Uncyc tried to abuse it the users would not let them. Just like they have here with Wikia. Without the support of the community it actually does not matter if you own the url of a wiki, you still can't go against the wish of the community because if you do they will all leave the site and you have noone to run it. Also, the spoon.


I'm guessing that free Uncyc is not "officially" as an registered nfp. I assume that if it were then that would cost money?


RE Carlb. He has done a lot of good for the Uncyclopedia over the years. It's not just Carlb who is pointing to free Uncyc now. Also many international edits for interwiki links are now going there. Also the Facebook, Twitter and Youtube accounts also now point to free Uncyc.
So if free Uncyc is not an "Official NFP" organisation ~(whatever that is) then that's a deal breaker for you? What exactly do you mean by NFP?
That aside, what should it say in the charter for new Uncyc? MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 01:05, Feb 18

edit Paraphrasing the above...

If I may try my hand at this:

  1. All the costs were up-front and there are no ongoing expenses.
  2. Zombiebaron as "dictator-for-life" is a more stable environment than a capricious corporation.
  3. Although A Time For Secrecy gave way to A Time For Unity, anyone who was simply on IRC at the right time would have been dealt into the game from the start.
  4. Everyone running the Fork is implicitly trustworthy, though users retain the option of cutting their hearts out with a spoon.
  5. The Fork is safer (for us and our texts) than Wikia, through some combination of poverty and anonymity. And, it is in Europe.

Give me a break! Spıke ¬ 00:51 18-Feb-13

OK SPIKE...
  • All the costs were up-front and there are no ongoing expenses.

I have no idea where you got this idea from. I have read the forums and never saw anyone say anything like that. Obviously there are on going costs.

  • Zombiebaron as "dictator-for-life" is a more stable environment than a capricious corporation.

That's a joke. Zombiebaron does not rule Uncyclopedia. On Uncyclopedia all Sysops are equal, and Sysops are also exactly equal to all Bureaucrats. A bureaucrats is not a higher rank than a sysop as the extra tools he/she has are only to be used with the express permission of the community. ZB knows this. although apparently TKF appears to forgets that fact occasionally. THAT is how the Uncyclopedia works. If anyone disagrees with me about this I want to know.

  • Although A Time For Secrecy gave way to A Time For Unity, anyone who was simply on IRC at the right time would have been dealt into the game from the start.

I agree the way things were handled were at times poor, I can see that some people were on IRC and some were not. I can see how that has cause friction and a lot of issues.

  • Everyone running the Fork is implicitly trustworthy, though users retain the option of cutting their hearts out with a spoon.

No one is implicitly trustworthy. So? I don't see that you are making a point here.

  • The Fork is safer (for us and our texts) than Wikia, through some combination of poverty and anonymity. And, it is in Europe.

I don't see that you are making a point here. it's safer because it's not openly trying to profit from putting the page on the net like Wikia are. That's rather simple and obvious. I do not see how you don't understand.

  • Give me a break!

Where would you like it? On a serious note... I don't see that you are making any valid points here SPIKE. I did see in the forums that one particular user was a total asshole to you when you said you wanted to stay at Wikia, but I have seen nothing from you which explains your views really. What I'm seeing is you saying "I don't like how they did it and told me about it". MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 01:19, Feb 18

edit Did someone steal the moon? It was there last time I looked, and now it's gone.

  • I just got to this wall of words which has been built without me knowing about it. First of all, and most importantly, msnbc says I haven't moved his pages to FreeUncy even though he gave me permission. Lazy bugger, tommyknocking layabout, I'm not going to move his pages, do it yourself if you can read. If I were you I'd put all my pregnent pages in one big package and drop it at their door and pregant the place up. msnbc is a treasure here, and if he or she wants to move hisher pages somewhere, don't expect help from the audience.
  • Is that it? I think that was all. As for the two uncy's, hahahahahahaha. Double our search engine hits, double our depository, give everyone a change to play in two large playgrounds, and enjoy the people and banter wherever it may be. I like the banter here more, but c'mon, there is no "here", everything and everybody is a click away just as they've always been. I'm adding my pages to both non-here places, but in my mental "feeling and knowingness" space I like writing here more, I don't know why, but all that means is there is a room in the mansion where I write that's as close to either place. When I feel comfortable with new edits on a page I move the page there (as you may notice I enjoy polishing my old pages, giving them the benefit of the great learning curve I've picked up writing here. Those older pages may get polished enough that I can move them, and that too comes on a feeling level).
  • Bottom line, I don't understand why more people aren't here, helping out the very good people who work the site. Spike is doing so much it surprises me that he is so amazingly important to this place, when awhile ago he took a long break and left us to our muddling. Puppy and Romartus and msnbc and Chief, some of the verterbre of uncy's backbone, have all stayed here and kept the lights on, and again, I don't know why anyone would be unhappy with that or mock it (I see much more anomisity at the new site, a great deal more, than here. Maybe it's one reason I like it here. THe other site even has regular updates in the unsignpost now about the war between the sites, which is a one-sided war as far as I've seen. They should instead be encouraging everone to come here and post their work, imnho, for I can see no negatives and all positives from having two active hives of the same bee family. And if anyone wants to ever sue uncyclopedia for slander or whatever,they will have to sue two places and get into a fight they don't want (see "John Scherer"). Now I will go to the other site just to look around, and come back and work on an old page I want to tweek and see if things come to me as I read it. Rooms in a house (and msnbc can carry his own books over to that library, thank you). Adding to the wall of words 1:41 18-2-'13
Then I disagree with ya Al. I really can't see how two Uncyc's running together can work or be a good thing for Uncyclopedia as a whole. If the two wiki intended to go in different directions and do different things with different goals then maybe, but... Do either wiki intend to change anything significant? I don't think so. In my opinion what we have here now is a farce. The same project in two places. We have IPs editing both wiki now. Free Uncyc is now being found by the IPs. Real IPs 2! Terrible edits and everything! So... The articles on both wiki are progressively getting different. There are people editing one article on one wiki, not knowing that actually on the other wiki there is a better version which someone edited yesterday. Those guys could have collaborated, but never will because they do not know that there are two versions of Uncyc. Over time this will happen more and more. ... The suggestion that it's somehow going to be possible to run backwards and forwards between the two wiki keeping them in sync is IMO bonkers. Sure, we could do it for a few individual articles, but not the mass of general edits, especially the IP edits. Yesterday I did run through the VFD list on wikia Uncyc and huff the stuff at free Uncyc to keep that right, but still...
To answer your question Al. "I don't understand why more people aren't here". Well, a lot of users have now moved to free Uncyc and have no intention of editing here again so I guess that's why they are not helping here. I guess they do not mind what happens to the database here because they have free Uncyc and feel that in time Wikia will be embarrassed into stopping hosting Uncyclopedia. MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 02:17, Feb 18
Ah, there's the thing. Wikia seems to want to keep hold of this site, and I and others asked them over and over to just let it go, to let the community have it. But no deal. Jimbo Wales and the crew seemingly want to keep it with a huge warning label and then make sure that it stays way in front on the search engines. So there will be two, no matter what we all would ideally want to occur. Your point is that there should just be one site, and if wishes were horses. But if there were only the fork, Lyrthria would own it (if I understand you correctly), so all that would stand in-between the end of uncy and the deep blue sea would be one person, so I'm glad this back-up exists. The two will have different edits, and we already have different Writers of the Year and Uncyclopedians of the Year, so they are no longer the exact same site. See, we can go round and round on this, but the fact is there will be two sites for a long long time, and we should quit bumping our heads on that ceiling and talk about how to make both of them better, how and what to share, and move over the best articles to each site (not every edit, but features and other pages everyone agrees should be kept nearly the same). Talking and talking about things which are ideal loses the focus on what is real. I heard someone say once "Can't we all just get along?" and then they pounded him to the ground again. (p.s. I tried to find you at ats. you need 20 posts to make a thread, and I look forward to having those kind of discussions with you!!! I can unofficially adopt you, although there is no such thing there, just ask me any questions of how to best get around and look at things. More on that soon) Al later that day
Don't worry. I have read that now. I think I have read most of the stuff about this now. ... Oh I don't doubt that Wikia want to keep Uncyclopedia. They paid money for it. It makes money for them. They are obviously very embarrassed over this, and are trying to save face. It does not look good for them at all.
Answer me this...
What would happen if everyone here who is currently running this Wikia wiki all went to "free" Uncyc and abandoned this one? Lets say for 2 or 3 weeks. What would happen? The front page would not get updated. Massive vandal attacks not reverted, noting working... People would start to ask questions. They would have to lock the database if vandalism was not being reverted. Obviously I am not advocating vandalism. I'm just saying that it would happen if there were no sysops. I guess Wikia would want to appoint some sysops? If there was enough solidarity in the community and users refused to accept being a sysop on the Wikia site then... No Sysops. No Wikia Uncyclopedia. Are Wikia going to pay someone to do it? Um. No. How many users on this site now actually could do it that are not currently sysops and are active? Not many... If EVERYONE left it would be VERY embarrassing for Wikia. As it is they can just claim that free Uncyc is just a minor offshoot of Uncyclopedia, and that actually the wiki is running fine. From what I can tell the truth is actually very different. So... We the community do have the power to make Wikia shut the wiki down. If we decided that was what we wanted to do. From what I can tell the only reason that a consensus to do that in the community has not been reached is due to people not talking to each other properly.
Tell me I'm wrong? MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 04:19, Feb 18
I understand why FUNC want WUNC to be abandoned to 'the crickets' to quote EMC but perhaps some of us prefer to have this Wikia option available and what Aleister said above. WUNC may have a much smaller user base but that is not to say that could change in future. Who knows. Meanwhile, those who contribute at FUNC do deserve their 'Philadelphia Forum' (and I am not talking about cheese here). --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 08:46, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
Romartus. I have no affinity with "FUNC". or WUNC or whatever it's called. I care not one jot about either. I want what's best for Uncyclopedia. Romartus why is having two Uncyclopedia better? Also, and just to clarify so you guys know... THE ONLY REASON WIKIA HAVE NOT BEEN FORCED TO CLOSE THIS WIKI SO FAR IS BECAUSE THE PROPLE NOW RUNNIG THIS WIKI ARE GIVING THEM THE POWER NOT TO. If users refused to sysop this wiki, Wikia would have to close it. You are keeping this wiki open. v
Guys. Please. Explain this to me. I have come back after months away ... The site is split into 2... I'm trying to sort this out, and you lot are saying "Because we want to" ? Eh? WTF? Let's have some REAL SOLID reasons please. Then maybe it's possible to fix this... MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 13:40, Feb 18
What is to prevent Jupiterfox from coming back, becoming a synops, and turning this into a illiterate furry-secks wiki? Worse, if this wiki closes, and the fork goes down, where is it going to be hosted? Back on Wikia maybe? If so, Wikia would be in a perfect position to force the community to accept ads, whatever awful skin Wikia is forcing on everyone at the moment, et cetera. Maybe on another user-created site? But it took about a year to get the fork going, and a re-creation would have even less resources than the fork, and if the project was down, communication would be 10 times harder. --Mn-z 14:18, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
Ahh. Mnbvcxz. A cool head, asking sensible questions! Thank you. Well...
  • What is to prevent Jupiterfox from coming back, becoming a synops, and turning this into a illiterate furry-secks wiki?

Nothing. I hope that happens. Wikia were always going to try to keep hold of this wiki. It makes money for them. This was always going to be needed to be necessary. ... If Jupiterfox wishes to turn this into a furry-secks wiki then that would be fine with me. That would mean that this wiki was a furry-secks wiki, whereas func (is that the name?) was Uncyclopedia. It would become a different project. Currently the status quo is a farce. Also, I don't think that Wikia could keep this wiki running if they did not have sysops who were able to actually do the job like a real sysop.

  • Worse, if this wiki closes, and the fork goes down, where is it going to be hosted? Back on Wikia maybe?

If the worst comes to the worst and the fork fails then Uncyclopedia will always be able to find a home somewhere. Anyone can take a copy of the database at anytime. Why do Wikia want to keep Uncyclopedia? Because it generates traffic to pages, and from that they make money. Why would anyone else agree to host Uncyclopedia in the future? Because they would make money out of doing it. We could and would find a new home. If the worst came to the worst the yes... We might end up where we are currently right now with Wikia hosting us. Again... Thank you Mnz. Did I answer your questions or do you still think I'm talking pants? I'm hoping people can see that this is... Um. MrN. Remember me? That guy right? I'm not trying to cause trouble here. I'm trying to help fix this... Here is something else to think about... Uncyclopedia is released under a license which says it can not be used for profit. Yet... Wikia make profit from Unyclopedia. So how is that possible? I think that "problem" is one reason why Wikia needed to put the warning sign up. Because they make money, it's more easy to sue them. Actually I think the entire Wikia uncycopedia database is possibly a breach of the creative commons license. I don't see how Wikia can host it legally. The license says they cant make money out of it. Yet they do... Hmm. MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 14:43, Feb 18

edit Take it to email

There's no benefit in our laundry being in the street. It won't help either site or the larger community.                               Puppy's talk page05:25 18 Feb 2013

Sorry no. People doing things in private, and not openly on the wiki is what got us into this mess in the first place. Also, if you had not noticed this is my talk page. Has Wikia Uncyclopedia reached the point now where a user is censored on their own talk page? MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 05:50, Feb 18
Nah. I just think the two of you are both reasonable enough to discuss this without mud-slinging, but you're both acting like… well… me.                               Puppy's talk page06:57 18 Feb 2013
Total bollocks. I'm not mud slinging, neither is Al. We are both just trying to sort out this mess. There are no sides here. Everyone is an Uncyclopedian MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 13:42, Feb 18
Getting back to what matters... What should be in the Uncyclopedia constitution? In addition, George Washington had it easy... MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 14:11, Feb 18

edit Another Header

To clarify:

The $1,500 per year figure is from the Uncyclopedia web page, quoting Nl:En:Uncyclopedia:Donate, emphasis mine, "Our 1.6 servers are expensive as they are projected to cost Uncyclopedia approximately $1,500 per year alone." This is their claim that they need $1,500 per year to run the servers.

The law generally does not distinguish between non-profit and for-profit copyright violation claims. If the Fork is not legally organized as a non-profit corporation, or some sort of corporation, Lyrithya, or whoever's name is on it, is personally legally liable as the webhost.

The community should NOT be responding to DMCA take-down notices. Real-life legal matters should be addressed by the persons legally liable for such issues, or their paid agents, not a gang of teenagers on the internet. Due to how DMCA take-down notices work, it fight one involves going to court, and "fair-use" is legally a defense, not a right. And, we actually don't have valid fair-use claims on much of what we use here. On a side note, American copyright law is not as bad as copyright laws in some other countries.

Uncyclopedia is larger and more well known than it was in the pre-Wikia days. Doing some research, Chronarion's first edit was Jan 5, 2005. Chronarion announced Wikia's hosting of uncyclopedia on May 26, 2005 here That means uncyclopedia was only independently hosted for 4 1/2 months, and at the time, uncyclo's database was fast approaching the 100 Megabyte limit on the old server according or Chronarion. --Mn-z 14:47, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

RE $1,500. I don't know. Sounds high to me. I have not spoken to the people on IRC yet. I have been putting that off... They obviously think they can do raise it. I know that there are a few individuals who have suggested the offer of financial support, but I don't know exactly what is going on. Obviously the guys who have done this think it's not a problem. I'm guessing that talk about this got lost in the jumble of talk and raised voices while all this was going on. I think we just need to get the right info to the right people on this...
  • The law generally does not distinguish between non-profit and for-profit copyright violation claims

So we are talking about "copyright violation" claims here now... I don't understand why you think that at all Mnz. Let's say you wrote a book and started to sell it... I then all the words in the book on my house. But then anther guy came along and copied your book, started printing it, and selling it. Who are you going to want to sue first, and who will the law take a more dim view of? On the issue of legal matters... My issue of the entire Wikia Uncyc database being a breach of the creative license continues to stand. I have yet to see anyone explain how it's possible for a company who make money from hosting wiki to host a wiki which has has a non for profit license.

If somone is not making somthing which is money out of something how can you copyyou make something and sell it, and then I make something

  • The community should NOT be responding to DMCA take-down notices.

Why? Maybe there are also some people who actually know what they are talking about on Uncyc?

  • ...that means uncyclopedia was only independently hosted for 4 1/2 months, and at the time

Back in 2005 the content of Uncyclopedia was FAR more controversial than it is today. UN:CBN rules had not been established and you were basically allowed to write anything about anything. There was some shocking stuff going on. Attack articles on kids. Dodgy pictures of kids. All sorts... Were there legal problems for Chron? I don't think so. Our content and rules are far stricter now, so the issues would be less. Also... Sickipedia... ED... There are many other sites who do this sort of thing fine, and they contain more offensive content that Uncyclopedia. Seen this? ? I wonder if that zaiger guy really is the guy commenting at the bottom really is the guy who set up the new ED wiki. If ED can do it... I think Uncyclopedia can. I don't see why you don't? MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 16:19, Feb 18

DMCA take-down notices are somewhat different than traditional copyright issues. The webhost is required to remove the offending material almost on request. The person uploading the material can then challenge the take-down notice, and the if the entity filing the takedown notice doesn't retract, they fight it out in court. Although the system does somewhat favor the takedown notice-filer, the upshot of this toward the acused copyright violator is the copyright issue can be resolved without turning it into a literal federal case. However, the webhost can't claim fair-use unless said webhost wants to "own" the liability for the potential copyright violation. Copyright law does not give "non-profit" organizations the right to use anything and everything, contrary to what some people think.
Regarding ED, the various webhosts have faced some legal issues, although those may have been due to cyber-attacks rather than content issues. Girlvinyl had some run-ins with the FBI, and received a good bit of real-life harassment. Ryan Cleary was arrested by Scotland Yard, although that appears to be due to unrelated to his role as ED host. And lets not forget recent e-Martyr Aaron Swartz and his legal issues with non-profit copyright violations.
My point isn't ZOMG! COPYRIGHT LAWS!!!1! You can actually get away with alot if you know how to game the system. But you must know the rules of the system, which implies that you must know that there is a system and it has rules rather or not you like the system and its rules. You can, for example, watch copyright violations on Youtube with impunity. However, torrent-ing the same material could result in legal trouble. Assuming or pretending that you are immortal is quickest way to get yourself killed. Telling someone to "go fuck themselves" when they give you a DMCA takedown notice, as some recent admin candidates have suggested, or otherwise pretending that you are above the law is not going to end well.
Wikia knows what it can and can't do without getting itself sued out of existence. I don't think the fork does. --Mn-z 16:54, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
Hea Mnz. Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. RE the DMCA take-down notices and that forum. Yes, I can see how someone reading that forum could get the idea that the fork can not handle itself legally. Some of the comments made in that forum bother me greatly, however... I think that Lyrithya answered the question of the forum when she said:
"If folks send us a takedown notice, if it's reasonable we'll probably just take whatever it is down, replace it with something else. No big deal."
From reading that forum I think it's clear that comments like "We're Uncyclopedia. We don't negotiate legal settlements" from TKF it would be easy to get the wrong idea about the forks intentions. As I have said, I have not been into IRC, but I think I know what is going on.... Actually, in reality obviously what Lyrithya said is correct. We would react to takedown notices on a case by case bases depending on the situation. Clearly we would not just say "fuck you" to all legal issues. Perhaps TKF is saying what he is saying in that forum as he wants people to think that is what we would do. Perhaps he hopes that by suggesting the position he is then perhaps Uncyc might get a few less people "trying it on" than they would otherwise. For example all major governments have a strict "no negotiation with terrorists" policy. If you ask them they will say that they will never pay a ransom, or submit to terrorists demands. They have to. If they did not, they would get lots more terrorist demands. But... The truth is that countries pay ransoms and give into terrorist demands all the time. They just don't like to talk about it. ;)
I doubt that TKF really is that naive... Although I have questioned Lyrithya's judjement in the past over some matters, on this I think she knows what she is doing. Also, it's not like it's only Lyrithya. We have the entire Uncyc userbase as a support network.
Regarding ED.. So nothing has happened to ED because of its content? I think we both know that Uncyc's content is less likely to be legally challenged than ED's. They are fine on that score, so Uncyc should be to right? Actually... Thinking about it, Carlb has hosted a mirror of Uncyc for years. I think he runs that out of a PC in his bedroom. No problems for him 2.
Talking about "Wikia knows what it can do"... Well... Asside from the fact that Wikia are currently making money out of content which is released under a non profit license... Let's pretend I'm Michelle Obama. There are two copies of Uncyclopedia on the internet both of them have an article about me which I don't like. Am I going to be more pissed off with a website which is non profit and run by volunteers, or a website which is profiting financially taking the piss out of me?
I'm aware that people are getting very stressed over this... I have a forum post planned at free uncyc in which I'm going to address a number of issues... From what I can see... One big issue here has been communication as some users spend a lot of time in IRC and some don't... Again, thanks for the reply. Mnz. MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 20:32, Feb 19
I don't think the average person cares if the webhost (not the site) is profit or "non-profit". Almost all webhosting is done commerically, facebook makes money off of ads, youTube makes money off of ads, as does Yahoo, google, myspace, et cetera. In point of fact, the fork IS earning money off of ad revenue according to its donation page. This wiki has no ads, not even the ad-once-removed spotlight ads. The other site is begging for donations, this one isn't. From outward appearances, this site looks less commercial than the fork.
More to the point, Wikia is not generating the content here. If I were to libel someone on facebook, they would get mad at me, rather than facebook for earning 32 cents of ad revenue on the libelous comment.
I don't think Lyrithya is going to go with the "go fuck yourself" route. However, I'm not sure she knows how to dot all the ?I's and cross all the T's in responding to various legal threats. --Mn-z 14:05, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
  • I don't think the average person cares if the webhost (not the site) is profit or "non-profit".

I do. A lot. For proof, look at the history of Uncyclopedia. Look at when Wikia dicked us around, and look at how that affected the number of users on Uncyc. I think you will find that a lot of people were very upset about the site moving from .org to .com. A lot left. People understood that this meant that Wikia would be using Uncyc's traffic to make it look like Wikia have more pages to advertise on than they really do. Do you think that the warning notice has not made a difference to the users/readers of this site? The Uncyc community is not like that of facebook, youtube or whatever. Generally Uncyc readers are more sensitive to certain issues than others. Also... For additional proof that users don't like to be on a for profit wiki look the users who have returned to the new site. DAWG, Brad, Mooses. Kip the Dip is now much more active. Many users appear to have come alive all of a sudden. As time goes on, and more people realise that the fork is there I suspect more people will go back to it. If they don't now it's because they don't know the fork exists yet.

  • From outward appearances, this site looks less commercial than the fork.

Hardly. I would think that most people using this site know that Wikia is a commercial company. Tell you what... Ask Sannse this... If the fork puts a link to the wikia site in their site notice, will wikia put up a site notice linking to the fork? I think not. I suspect that Wikia know very well that most people, given the choice would choose to go to the NFP site.

  • I don't think Lyrithya is going to go with the "go fuck yourself" route. However, I'm not sure she knows how to dot all the ?I's and cross all the T's in responding to various legal threats.

You appear to be assuming that it's just Lyrithya who would deal with any issues which came up. She would not. She would have the support of the entire Uncyc community. ED manage fine, as do sickipedia. I suspect that Uncyclopedia is actually far more able to handle potential issues than ED or sickipedia. I also suspect that Uncyclopedia is less likely to need to handle any issues which might come up as the content here is less likely to cause a challenge. Done a google search on Uncyclopedia recently? The fork is now 4th on the list... I actually have a few other question which I would like to ask you via e-mail, and not on the wiki. If you are up for this, please e-mail me on mrn9k@yahoo.co.uk MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 15:58, Feb 20

  • My issue wasn't if the editor cared that Wikia is a for-profit company. My issue is that the maker of legal threats doesn't care. --Mn-z 17:04, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
I think you are wrong, but you decided not to e-mail me so I'm going to give up. Take care. MrN Icons-flag-gb (talk to me) 15:29, Feb 21
Sir ScottPat Icons-flag-gb Scotland Flag 1 UnS CUN VFH (talk) 15:24, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

edit Express Delivery...is not available today (just normal delivery)

Sir ScottPat Icons-flag-gb Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose UnS CUN VFH and Bar (talk) 04:30 17, April 2014

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