User talk:Mctomerd11

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edit Gaza War on VFD

Congratulations on opening a ballot! I have moved it to the bottom of the page as is the custom. It is also the custom for the nominator to cast the first vote, in which he explains why he wants the page deleted. Spıke Ѧ 22:05 15-Apr-14

I saw... I don't understand how people can even find this article funny. I don't that have nothing to do about point of view... These just pictures that Muslims uploaded so people will love them and hate Jews, I cant find any small piece of humor at this kind of article just look at this picture [[150px "HAHAHAHA THIS IS SO FUCKING FUNNY!!!", said no one, ever. Israel is here! Daemon Israel 18:12, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Besides that, what kind of admin are you? You know the article suck, you know it, you really, really know it. But still you are commenting racist comment against a whole state of 8M people in it, mybe just for 1 second forget your political views, read this article and than tell me if this is funny? well is this? Israel is here! Daemon Israel 18:19, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Anton199 seemed to accept my challenge in the ballot and try to restore the original humor concept. Importantly, we do not insist that a page remain unchanged on the basis that it is undergoing a vote. As it says at the top of VFD, the goal is to improve content rather than to win a vote. The rules say the nominator should revert the page to any better version he finds in the History, and if you wanted to replace the photos with photos that a Jew and Muslim would both find funny, we would be delighted. Back to the point: Why nominate an article and not vote that it be deleted?

As for what kind of an Admin I am: (1) an Admin that resided on VFD (to look for fresh meat to save) long before I was an Admin; and (2) an Admin that bristles when accused of not doing my job when I am doing my job: moderating a required vote rather than cutting it short based on my opinion on the present status of the article. I abstained because I thought the defects in the article could be repaired. So don't call me a racist. Spıke Ѧ 18:23 16-Apr-14

PS--ScottPat now writes in the ballot that he too is going to try to repair this article. Spıke Ѧ 18:37 16-Apr-14

it has attracted the predictable additions accusing Israel, or Shitrael, of stealing land. That's a racist thing to say, I am also an admin at the hebrew uncyclopedia and we recently added a rule about instant deletion because there were users that flooded the site with those kind of articles. Israel is here! Daemon Israel 18:44, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

(1) It is not "a racist thing to say," as accusations against a government — true, false, or malicious — are not accusations against a race. (2) The instant deletion rule here does not depend on viewpoint, and there would be no support here for any instant deletion based on viewpoint. (3) We are not flooded with such articles and we can deal with the few we get through forums such as VFD. ScottPat's rework seems to be well underway. You could contact him directly with your recommendations. Spıke Ѧ 19:20 16-Apr-14

1) I don't know how did you go to the conclusion that I submit instant deletion I just told you that I am not depending on viewpoint.
2) There are differences between racism and viewpoint, racism is funny in lot of cases (like these: Israel or Jewbacca) but just posting none sense lies is not funny.
3)It is a racist thing to say you didn't say anything about the government you said about the country and you said we stole land. I didn't want to get to that level but if you are going to say something dumb like this get your shit straight, Israel (back than was called "Palestine") was purchased from the Ottoman Empire for nearly $560,000,000 (In 1943 it was allot of money). P.S arab keep saying we "expelled" them from the country and this is the biggest lie ever no one ever did that they live here and every Muslim that wants to come here can. Israel is here! Daemon Israel 19:49, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Hello there! I'm currently re-writing the article as my colleague mentioned. I agree that there were quite a few parts of the article that weren't funny and just racist and so we are eliminating them. However attacking a Government or nation for what it does in the name of comedy is perfectly acceptable we do it to our own governments and nations as well. Accusing Israel of taking the arable land in the region and then declaring a non-secular state where Judaism is respected more than Islam is a general world problem and something we may address in our comedy - it is not racist. Thank you for the Ottoman Empire fact we can use that in the article as well.
I don't know whether you yourself live in Israel (or even Palestine!) but if you do want any help trying to solve the problem over there I suggest learning from the Northern Ireland Conflict. Most foreigners can hardly believe that at one point the Irish hated each other so much that they murdered each other's populace on the streets of Londonderry/Derry (even the name depends on which side you are on!), policemen were killed, even the British Army was sent in (and like in the Gaza War murdered protestors on the unreliable evidence some of them had a gun) and IRA terrorist killed many Londoners with railway station bombs in London as well (my Dad very nearly was killed by one) so it was just as bitter as the Israel-Palestine Conflict. The resolution was that the British Government and Irish Government finally decided not to support either side and the Northern Ireland Catholics and Protestant extremists lost any support from the law of the either land. This meant that the state now tolerated all and the people stopped fighting each other (mostly, some extremists still around today and still some hatred between the population). A secular and neutral state is the only way you're going to solve the conflict and that can only be set up by the country with support and money, Israel. I'm sure you'd get a lot less hate from the vandals if the Jewish state was the one that decided to be sensible and stop the violence. Anyway I don't know everything about the situation and I don't live there but just some advice that's all! Sir ScottPat (converse) White Ensign Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose VFH UnS NotM WotM WotY 07:24, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
You at the situation in very childish view, you cant just "stop" attacking Hamas has said that they wont stop attacking until we will give them full ownership of the land! that we bought! that we raised! we did so much to get this land and we tried so many times to stop the fire but don't agree. Hamas (classified by the European union as terrorist organization), Can you tell me how can we stop the fire? If we stop the fire there will be no Israel. You keep saying thing that are wrong like this "Israel (or even Palestine!)" Palestine is the name that was given to the country before Israel, Muslims keeps calling it like that because they think we stole it from them... But Ottoman Empire sold it to us and agreed to give it to us, and because we are such a nice country we even agreed for them to stay in that country and even gave them cities near Jerusalem just for them (they don't have to live there if they don't want to but lot of them don't like to live with Jews) besides that we did even nicer things to them, they don't have to serve in the army! All of the Israeli citizens have to serve in the army for 3 years (or more if they want to) when they finish high school but Muslims don't have to! And if a citizen that is not Muslim doesn't want to go to the army he will go to jail! Besides all of that: want to hear our latest deal with them? our dumb government has freed 70 Muslim murders that killed people just for a truce. Here is another unfair deal that was made by our dumb government 3 Israeli soldiers (that Hamas has promised that are alive) for 300 Muslim terrorists, even that this was unfair enough Hamas lied the soldiers they have promised are dead, in the day of the trade they gave us 3 bodies. So you are asking us to stop attacking? and maybe if we will stop they will stop and everything will be fine? are you nuts? if Israel will stop firing we will all be dead! Israel is here! Daemon Israel 15:17, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
No one's asking you to give up your land. Just create a secular, neutral state where Muslims and Jews can live together. Spend that funding from EU and US on education, healthcare, police. Then the Muslim extremist will learn that diplomacy not terrorism is the route forward. This may sound "childish" to you anx maybe even impossible but it happened in Northern Ireland and fifteen years ago no policeman was safe there! The Palestinians are just human beings afterall.
By the way how are things at the Hebrew Uncyclopedia, active? Sir ScottPat (converse) White Ensign Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose VFH UnS NotM WotM WotY 15:40, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
There a neutral state for Muslims and Jews to live together its called Israel we live here in peace, Palestinians don't want to what can we do? They chose that life, and there are lot of muslim countries they can go to if they don't want to live here...
And yes we are just 5 users but still its pretty active... 21:31, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Gentlemen, "this is a humor wiki." The offending photos are "orphaned by edit" — They were not uploaded, I think, by a Palestinian but by a guy who had a lot of anti-Western rhetoric to contribute to the site — and you will see that we have tried to substitute more whimsical humor. ScottPat, do you know that Israel has 1 million Arab citizens, mostly living with vastly more prosperity than the average citizen of Gaza or the West Bank, including Arabs on the same street but across the "border"? Israel is a state where Muslims and Jews do live together, although it is not "secular" nor "neutral." Spıke Ѧ 15:48 17-Apr-14

I respect the fact that Arabs live in Israel and are prosperous there however as you say it is not secular nor neutral. It's like saying blacks were perfectly free to live in 1950s USA. Britain bought New York off the Dutch but "some extremists rebelled and claim our land" - we've come a long way from there through education not through war. Israel unfortunately stamps its foot down as "we Jews have been through a hell of a lot of harrasement so to even out history we can have all the arable land of religious importance and the US and EU can fund us to keep outsiders away from it." And it isn't just Israel's fault at all. It's the US and Britain and the EU. Why don't we pump a hell of a lot of aid into both Israel and Palestine or neither not just preferring one over the other? Anyway this is a humour wiki. Sir ScottPat (converse) White Ensign Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose VFH UnS NotM WotM WotY 16:41, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
(1)Currently there is no such country as Palestine. (2)" Israel unfortunately stamps its foot down as "we Jews have been through a hell of a lot of harrasement so to even out history we can have all the arable land of religious importance and the US and EU can fund us to keep outsiders away from it." this is the stupidest thing I have read in this site so far, are saying such silly stuff maybe go read something about the subject? Israel has one of the strongest armies and very advanced in high weapon technologies, Israel has enough money to fund itself believe me, Jews are not dumb they made lot of know how to get money, they made: Facebook, Whatsapp, Google and did lot for the world. Israel sells lot of products to the world and makes billions every year they don't get a penny from Europe. U.S.A imports us M-16 through but we help allot to U.S.A too. Do you actually think Israel is some stupid poor country lives inside a dessert? We bought this country and we raised it, we built cities we made we planted to trees here and drained wetlands and we paid the full price to the Ottoman Empire that had no problem to give this land to us. Why the fuck we have to give bunch of crazy, stupid, hobos that Hamas pays their families money so they will bomb them self and kill people to live here? If I was the president I would bomb them so hard, and send tanks to destroy everyone who lives there. We already gave them lands! did they stop bombing us? NO THEY LIED! Why dafuq would we let live? Kill all of them without a mercy these people don't deserve to live. Israel is here! Daemon Israel 22:03, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, ScottPat writes as though Israel was good farmland before Israel was created! It is like the serious joke I made yesterday (in the April business round-up on UnNews) about the Congressmen who demand that a drug (from Gilead Sciences) to be cheaper when before it was not available at any price. ScottPat is correct that the several religious claims on Jerusalem are irreconcilable, likewise the desires of both sides to have all their territory be contiguous. But making a claim does not imply being right. ScottPat, writing a rant and ending with "Anyway this is a humor wiki" is like my fellow townsfolk who come to Town Meeting, argue an issue for the maximum time, and end it with, "I call for the vote!" Mctomerd11, don't correct ScottPat's spelling; because (1) it is a never-ending quest, and (2) one of your corrections changes British to American, which will especially not sit well. Spıke Ѧ 23:51 17-Apr-14

I have never said and certainly do not think that Israel is a poor country. On the contrary I say that because it is the rich country with proper education out of the two Israel and Palestine I think that it has the responsibility of becoming a secular state and letting the original Arab tribes who once lived there enjoy being succesful, work for the State of Israel etc. I keep calling for a secular state that regards no religion above the other. Israel is an amazing country and I certainly do not disrespect its industry or economy in any way.
Secondly I have never said anything bad about the Jews, nor am I talking about a race at all. I am talking about Israel, which is a country so not sure how you think I said Jews are "dumb".
The land was arable before Israel came along. The crescent of arable land which sits around the end of the Mediterranean from the Suez to Southern Turkey has always been a key area to control since Romans and Mesopotamia (however you spell that!). By holding it you have to except some human responsibility that poor people suffering from bad education and economies in other countries should be allowed to immigrate to a rich country that can educate them and help them in return for labour. In religious terms I believe the Christians call it "Love thy neighbour."
You bought the land - so what? As I say again Britain bought New York off the Dutch. The USA never bought it off us! And yet look no fighting, instead a bit of "Love Thy Neighbour" cos we acknowledge we taxed them to shreds. The attitude of Monarchs, of dictators is that they own the land so they have the rights but we've learnt since then that compassion towards other humans means more than who has the money or the land.
Palestine is a state. It is recognised with "observer status" by the UN, it has a government that was elected by people and people declare themselves Palestinians. It also holds the territory of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. That is enough for me to recognise it as a State.
Hamas is a terrible organisation too. However considering it no longer holds the arable land in the region, has been forced off its own lands by treaties that it originally was never involved in and it has no support from the UN, US, EU, Great Britain etc. then it is in no position to provide decent education to understand that cooperation is better than fighting. It will just keep brainwashing people to attack Israel because that is its cheap and easy solution.
Also study the Northern Ireland conflict. My country was the equivalent of Israel. We masacred Irish people in the streets with our army. We supported one group of people against another in our land. We said that it would never end because the IRA kept attacking us. It was there fault. Then suddenly we realised that if we became neutral and gave the Irish rebels a say in government the situation is resolved. They came to learn that the state would let them live in peace and if they still wanted NI to go to Ireland then they would have to get there politically.
It sounds cheap of me advising you how to run a country's diplomacy when I live miles away however rest assured the Brits have done this for centuries so nothing new there! Also I take up a lot of problems with my own country's politics and do everything I can to correct them. I advise you not as a Brit but a human being who wants to try to help to stop the bloodshed. Israel will get so much more respect than it does now if it used its money in creating a secular and neutral state for everyone and solving the crisis without war than it would for keeping back Hamas. Sir ScottPat (converse) White Ensign Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose VFH UnS NotM WotM WotY 07:02, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
Just because we have money doesn't mean we have to give to them to help be more educational. Also why would we give them to live here? They will just bomb their self when they will enter the country. Israel is here! Daemon Israel 10:31, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
"Why should we be selfless?" That's really a question for philosophy - been debated for years. But let's put it this way educated the Palestinians is cheaper and more beneficial in the long run than shooting at them. Once people are educated they become more tolerant and less extremist, many studies have shown that.
Secondly more people for a state means more production, more scientific research, stronger state and stronger position in the diplomatic world.
Thirdly the civilised World including Israel will one day have to combat the problem of many extremist country's in the Middle East (as it currently attempts to do by force) who are not contributing to helping humanity advance as a race as much as they are hindering by draining lives and resources. If the Middle East has Israel as a stepping stone we can make other country's more tolerant around it by showing that the more tolerant you are, the greater your country can be, setting an example. This will provide competition and a trade market for Israel stimulating a healthy trade economy.
The World is moving on to a more tolerant society and countries like Israel are almost there and need to make that final step. The more tolerant countries we have the fewer extremist countries and eventually religiously or aristocratically biased countries there will be.
Finally the only other option seems to be the constant war/conflict. The Palestinians won't agree to 2 state and even if they did all that would develop is an extremist Islamic state that is another threat to Israel. Saving lives of humans caught up on both sides of the conflict is achieved through a single neutral state where people can receive education and resolve troubles diplomatically.
I personally would consider it a duty to humanity and to my country and if I was religious maybe to my religion. My duty is to stop UKIP from getting support in the UK so they can prevent foreigners accessing the liberal society we (almost) provide. In the end the World can be liberated from countries that brainwash and oppress their populations and Israel needn't fear an attack from terrorists. Sir ScottPat (converse) White Ensign Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose VFH UnS NotM WotM WotY 19:00, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
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