User:Llwy-ar-lawr/Celwyddoniadur going down the tubes

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Note: This topic has been unedited for 457 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.

I hope I'm doing this right. Is this the right forum? Should I have gone somewhere else? Does it even matter?

Celwyddoniadur, the Welsh version of Uncyclopedia, is in rather bad shape. The last serious edits were on 29 December and were reverts of vandalism by IPs who clearly had no clue what the site was about. What appears to be the only admin has not made any edits since 2008; I left a message three days ago on his talk page but I don't ever expect him to answer.

When I first joined Celwyddoniadur I didn't realise nobody was editing it. I figured that the community there would be delighted to have another editor because they had so few of those and only 54 articles (at the time). But then nobody ever left me anything on my talk page, and I started poking around revision histories and things and I turned up a good deal of vandalism that hadn't been undone, and I began to see that something was off. Finally, I looked at recent changes to see when the last edit I didn't make had been -- and it was by an IP who had blanked this. A perfectly good article, blanked for no discernible reason, and I was the one to revert it several weeks after it had been done because nobody else seems to care.

So then I looked for the last edit obviously made in good faith. I found several edits made on 29 December by Caradog, all of them reverting totally weird vandalism by IPs. By 'weird' I mean things like this (this particular edit, unfortunately, waited for months before anyone took care of it): edit summary consisting of random characters, content replaced with an essay/advert spammy thing about something or other. And always in English. Always. The IPs had absolutely no idea what Celwyddoniadur is, and that annoys me.

Okay, it's not entirely true that the IPs all were writing strange stuff in English. There was this, in which the person removed a perfectly good section and the interwiki links and replaced it with weird text in Welsh. Some of the IP edits were even constructive. But that is the exception, not the rule. And then there was this article about better customer service, and I had no idea what to do since there's no one to delete it, so I did this (it now says 'This article was in English. This is why it got deleted'). But there should have been someone to actually delete it, really -- what's to be done with it otherwise?

In short, the userbase and administration seems to have walked away except for me, and the wiki is living on borrowed time at this point. I would really like to see something done because I can't handle an entire wiki, couldn't even if I were an admin, never mind its being in a language I have such an inadequate grasp of. Is there any way something can be done from outside? Is there hope here? Should we shut down Celwyddoniadur? I sincerely hope we don't have to do that. If we manage to keep it, I'd be happy to be an admin there if there's anyone who can give me the rights, even though my Welsh is not where I'd like for contributing significantly, because I don't see anyone else stepping up to take on the role.

Finally, need I mention that the server is too slow and the connection occasionally times out? -– Llwy-ar-lawr talkcontribs 09:58, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

This is not the right forum. The Village Dump is a broadcast to editors of this English-language wiki regarding issues that relate to it. We have no control over the Welsh-language wiki and virtually none of us have your competence to do anything about the situation. I'll move this to your userspace and send mail to Sannse, our liaison at webhost Wikia, Inc.
However, I expect her to say that she cannot control the level of interest in any particular wiki. Wikia hosts tens of thousands of them, and interest waxes and wanes. We all think our work is worth more advertising and marketing on the part of Wikia, but those decisions are driven by the Suits. And given apathy, I would expect junk edits and lack of users to set them to rights.
On Uncyclopedia, several of us do welcome new users, and several of us around the globe revert vandalism on the same order as is occurring on the Welsh version. It sounds as though you need Admin powers there--but even that, and even cleaning up the place, will not be a magnet for more users. Long before the unpleasantness at the start of this year, we were observing a drop-off here. Social media is simply exploding, in new forms that don't require the coding and cooperative skills that we do. Spıke Ѧ 10:09 1-May-13
Thanks for your reply and moving the page. I thought the situation was something like what you outlined. I know there's no way to drum up users but thought I should broach the issue somewhere. -– Llwy-ar-lawr talkcontribs 10:43, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
I got Spike's message, but that's not one I can help with either - it's not hosted by Wikia. I think it might be hosted by CarlB? Sorry not to be able to help -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 20:20, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
It's all right Sannse, you shouldn't have to be bothered about this anyway. But thank you. No, you're right, the site isn't hosted by Wikia. If it were, would there be something we can do with it as users of Wikia that we can't do now in the present situation? If so, is there a way to get it hosted on Wikia? I think maybe one of us should contact the host or whoever we believe is probably the host to see if there's anything s/he can do. I can't do it with email because there's an issue with my email settings that I haven't fixed. -– Llwy-ar-lawr talkcontribs 22:31, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Help Campaign for Celwyddoniadur

I feel quite sorry about this Welsh-Uncycklopedic website falling into disrepair and I would love to help but I don't speak Welsh. How about putting a message about it up on village dump so that any Welsh-speaking Uncyclopedians can see it and offer to help. I was quite surprised there was a Welsh Uncyclopedia and am quite glad that our minority languages are still being spoken today. I wish we Scots would have enough enthusiasm to continue and spread Gaelic but I don't know one word of that either.

Another idea is to make a Welsh subsection of Uncyclopedia so that it can be part of this website but only have Welsh articles. Sir ScottPat Icons-flag-gb Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose UnS CUN VFH and Bar (talk) 18:12 29, November 2015

I'm not in favor of this. I've just been discussing with Llwy the mandate from Wikia not to use its servers to make its traffic disappear; and we find out (above) from Sannse that Celwyddoniadur is not even a Wikia property. Also, it is a small leap from using the Village Dump to broadcast a call for help for Celwyddoniadur, to broadcasting a call for help for the Boston bombing victims, for a mediocre-but-gay basketball player, and for the Tea Party movement. We should not abuse the power to broadcast; Village Dump is for issues of concern to the English-language Uncyclopedia, and an odd and probably unfruitful place to call for help from speakers of Welsh. Spıke Ѧ 20:40 2-May-13

I just presumed that many Welsh speakers on here have probably immigrated from Welsh uncyclopedia as most Welsh speakers speak English as a fluent second language. What about having a wikia run Weslh uncyclopedia which has nothing to do with the previous Welsh one mentioned. Afterall there are many English uncyclopedias so why not Welsh. Sir ScottPat Icons-flag-gb Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose UnS CUN VFH and Bar (talk) 18:12 29, November 2015

Wikia is eagerly in the business of encouraging people to start new wikis. Perhaps Llwy would do better running his own than soliciting the help of any of us to repair a wiki that apparently is still the property of "Carlb". If Celwyddoniadur has only 59 (plus delta) articles, then as we have seen, you can steal them at will, subject only to fixing the vandalism between then and now. An additional obstacle is that Llwy says he isn't fluent. Ni nosotros tampoco, ¿verdad? Spıke Ѧ 21:16 2-May-13

Verdad. No hablo nada de Galés. Yes, I think if Llwy started a new Welsh uncyclopedia thing that would be the best solution. Sir ScottPat Icons-flag-gb Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose UnS CUN VFH and Bar (talk) 18:12 29, November 2015

I did consider starting a new wiki. I don't really want more forks hanging around though -- that is why I have been pestering all and any that I thought might be able to help with the existing site. However a fork looks like the only solution. Bother. I'll try to find out how to start a new wiki and see if there's any way to prevent it from showing ads on the side. Once that is done I suppose the existing non-Wikia site should be deleted or something.
I realise the Village Dump was the wrong place for this but there's really not a better one I can think of. The obvious venue would be the Celwyddoniadur forum, but of course nobody ever looks at that. This is why this thing is in my userspace. Not sure how it's a small leap to broadcasting help for Boston bombing victims etc because that has nothing whatsoever to do with Uncyclopedia, does it, so why would we put it here?
By the way, there is a message on Carlb's UnMeta talk page asking about admin rights for me. I'll wait a few weeks or so to see if he takes action. Creating a fork may, I hope, be premature. -– Llwy-ar-lawr talkcontribs 19:12, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider it a fork as long as it is all in Welsh. It will then simply be another language wiki which is acceptable as hopefully you won't be stealing our users for good. Good luck to you! Sir ScottPat Icons-flag-gb Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose UnS CUN VFH and Bar (talk) 18:12 29, November 2015

Thanks. I didn't mean a fork of Uncyclopedia but of Celwyddoniadur and I have no intention of stealing our users. (That is, I have no intention of making them leave. If they'd join Celwyddoniadur that would be just lovely.) -– Llwy-ar-lawr talkcontribs 19:51, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

By all means I encourage all our Welsh users to join your site but to stick around here as well. Sir ScottPat Icons-flag-gb Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose UnS CUN VFH and Bar (talk) 18:12 29, November 2015

Okay, so I just started setting up the fork - it should be at [link censored due to abuse filter] soon. I regret to say that I did not use Wikia. I don't want a domain or the obnoxious stuff Wikia puts on its wikis, so I used someone else, or tried to; I can't figure out how to straighten things out with the domain (I want it to be .org) or set up the site. But oh no, I can't ask for help here. It's not about Wikia!
In fact, I actually want nothing more to do with Wikia. I'm not interested in adding totally harmless external links only to be scolded for 'directing traffic away from the site'. I'm not interested in calling for help for our Welsh sister in a seemingly sensible place only to have my forum moved to my userspace, where it most definitely was not intended to go. I tell you, there is no better place for this, and it needed to be said, so what do you expect me to do?! And then I am asked to host Celwyddoniadur on Wikia, and I choose another host but am afraid of asking perfectly legitimate questions about how to do it because I am asking for calls of help for something other than Wikia. Sure, maybe Wikia does need help, but I can't see evidence that it's doing badly and I don't want to have what feels like my every move dictated by what is best for Wikia.
Now enough about me. I really have no more to say here. As one might put it, I would have to have the Non-Wikia Not board put around my neck, and I would be the last one in the class wearing it...and, well, you know the rest. -– Llwy-ar-lawr talkcontribs 14:27, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Wow! A bit hostile there. We have all encouraged you to set up another Welsh Uncyclopedia. We (well at least I) don't care whether it is Wikia or not so what's with the attack on Wikia. Please do not refer to it as a fork as it isn't one and it makes it sound hostile as forks can poke people's eyes out.

I thought we were all getting on well and I see no reason for the previous comment as we haven't done anything to upset you and Spike has helped you in the name of Wikia. Sir ScottPat (talk) White Ensign Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose VFH UnS NotM WotM WotY 17:45, May 5, 2013 (UTC) (Forgot to add date so time is wrong)

Very very sorry for the tone of that. It was unnecessary. I'm glad you don't care whether it's Wikia or not. I shouldn't have assumed you did. 17:24, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

That's ok, have fun in your new Welsh Uncyclopedia. Sir ScottPat (talk) White Ensign Scotland Flag 1 Compassrose VFH UnS NotM WotM WotY 17:45, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

I see this is archived...but 9 days really isn't that long. Thought I should update anyone who was interested.
Current status of things: the current site is still around and I have been made an administrator and stuff on it. So the fork seems to be unnecessary. Now all we need is a userbase (or at least one or two fluent Welsh speakers). I'll try refining settings on the global IP blocks and see if that allows any useful contributors to edit as well as opening the door to more spam. Anyway, I just thought I should let you all know. -– Llwy-ar-lawr talkcontribs 23:37, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

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