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This article was a in-jokey piece of shit. So I've rewritten it almost entirely removing Portuguese language references and other stuff that only Brazilians could find funny. It's very cruel in its current form, but I am, unfortunately, morally authorized to do so. -- herr doktor needsAsample [scream!] 20:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC) Just for comparision, the previous version: . -- herr doktor needsAsample [scream!] 23:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
|Humour:||4||More bitter than funny|
|Concept:||6||Some great opportunities for bizarre humour|
|Prose and formatting:||5||Could be more idiomatic/contemporary/vernacular|
|Images:||7||Some really funny images. More please. Be more extavagant with the captions.|
|Miscellaneous:||5||Too many protestations of "truth"|
|Reviewer:||Pieface 09:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)|
In my opinion this article suffers from two big mistakes. First mistake: In your attempt to make it understundable for everyone you just made it plain shallow. Plain shallow in two ways. One way is what you did with the war against paraguay. That could be said about any war between two countries, couse wars are always stupid and always involve stupid national egos issues. The Guerra da Triple Alianza (If I'm mistaken and you were talking about a war unknown to me, ignore what follows) was in some respects even silier than many other wars, and you could've made something with more satirical value if you were ready to demand from the reader just a little knowldege on the subject. Second way, you rely to much upon the stereotypes foreigners have about brazil, just a place for sex-turisim, pickpocketing, etc. It's like that chapter from the Simpsons where they fly to Brazil, just a lot less funny.
Second mistake. Well, HTBFANJS alredy explains of the disadvantages of outright sarcasm. You made your point, you don't like brazil, you think brazilians are dumb. Unfortunatly, you do so not while making fun of Brazil, you just insult it. The chapter Society and Culture seems to me like a good example of what not to do. Sorry to be harsh, but maybe you should consider to revert, better an article funny to a potential public of many millions than this.---Asteroid B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 15:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the part about Brazilians being dumb was preserved from the previous version. Brazilians are quite weird regarding their national identity. They have that hula-hula non-western folkloric culture that is as exotic to themselves as it is to the rest of the world. Despite left-wing intellectuals trying to convince them everyday that being a real Brazilian is lacking teeth and playing wooden drums, not hearing hip hop or heavy metal. Yes, people hear a lot of Brazilian music, and that music is just an awful prodcut of big recording companies industry and their sell-outs playing diluted pop turned "Authentically Brazilian" just because it's the elevator brand of folk ballad. That's the MPB. Samba is the same, but with drums. Brazilians also loath Brazil as no one else but if a foreigner agrees with them, they suddenly become angry jingoists. That's part of the mental disease that being "an average Brazilian" is. Not that human beings outside are less diseased when they become nationalists - but 500 wrongs don't make a right and we're talking about Brazil specifically. And Brazil is undeniably a deeply corrupt and anti-intellectual country with a very insignificant History - and all Brazilians would agree (at least among themselves) about Brazilian History being a Carnival parade with no glorious moment. So, the History part is full of real facts with no random drifting. And the War of Triple Alliance was filled with ridicule, as slaves fighting against free man and being used as cannon fodder. That's the pretty Brazil.
What's tricky is that this article is in no way shallow: cannibalism is in fact considered metaphorically a main feature of Brazilian culture. Metaphorically because Brazilian intellectuals blablahs about our "antropophagic culture". Brazil supposedly "eats" every foreign cultural feats to turn into our deeply original "proper culture" with no ties whatsoever with the Western Culture. Maybe you have heard about this but if you lived here you would see this repeated and repeated ad nausean.
I agree with you in that we could remove the "Brazilians are dumb" part. But the rest is quite accurate, believe me. And, as I said before, that's not xenophobic slurs coming from an occasional visitor who left Brazil with the sensation of being fooled by touristic advertising. Much more than you, I know how this article is bitterly true. In other words, all of the Brazilian problems are fault of the Brazilians themselves, forget about left wing conspiracy theories and how the riches make the poor. We're no victims, and that's a lesson Brazil have to learn if it wants to become something. During all of our independent history, we were politely ignored by the so-called "Imperialists". The only act of imperialism that really made a difference was the UK's pressure for abolishing slavery, mind you... -- herr doktor needsAsample [scream!] 16:52, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Having read the comments above, and made (many) small edits to the piece, I have to say that it is not very funny....it's more like a diatribe than satire. And NeedABrain confirms that suspicion above. I don't have a problem with political satire but as rataube said, there is a difference between satire and straighforward insults. -- Pieface 11:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- I don't remember who said that, and I got the quote second-hand from Theodore Dalrymple, but it's far easier hating your own country than other people's ones. In other words, this article is full of truth and I'm really in a position to attest it. In spite of appearing to be the last hope for democracy in Chavezland, Brazil is hopelessly immersed in self-pity, self-exoticism and anti-Americanism. So somewhat the truth about Brazil appears to be offensive to the untrained eyes. In fact, get any Third-World country and explain why it's third world without "blame the West" victimist arguments and see if you can not appear offensive to our PC-contaminated mindset. There are lots of parts preserved from the previous versions thus, as the one about Brazilian dumbness (I kept it just for the comparison with the Koreans). But the History part is very close to the facts. -- herr doktor needsAsample [scream!] 03:45, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, truth is not always funny. Going on a bit about how dumb Brazilians are has the potential to be funny. Then comparing Brazilians to Koreans in this regard (unfavourably) is just nasty. There is just too much "truth" and "facts" in the piece. And how many of those would survive in Wikipedia? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against expressing a (political) point of view in a piece of humour -- in fact, am partial to it. And I have absolutely no views on Brazil and Brazilians (other than fond memories of an energetic young woman on a stopover) But the operative word is humour. At least that is why I am here. I think the piece can be saved, and could even be good -- i.e. funny. But it needs work. -- Pieface 04:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
- Man, I really don't get you all in this regard. I took a piece of in-jokey random material (an article about dogs and cats that could fit well for Estonia or Zimbabwe) and tried to remake it based on facts (facts known to non-Brazilians). After all, seems that you still have to be Brazilian to get it. People look at it and say "hey, that's just a collection of stereotypes" and I like: "yeah. That's all. Wanna exchange nationality with me?". But whatever, I wash my hands, I'm not even listing this rewrite among my articles anymore. Do as you please. -- herr doktor needsAsample [scream!] 04:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
- I already did do as I pleased by spending an hour trying to make the piece tolerably funny (to me). I am sorry that you feel my criticism is too close to the bone. Risky stuff, this Pee Review. -- Pieface 04:56, 1 June 2007 (UTC)