Forum:UnNews problem statements

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Note: This topic has been unedited for 677 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.

Two reworks to the UnNews Front Page are underway (opt3 and Beta). Neither resulted from offering a problem statement and proposing a solution; both seem to have happened when one or a team of Uncyclopedia veterans returned from somewhere and decided to change the way everyone else does business.

Here is a list of what is actually broken--and it will help if others add to it. Please keep the format that main-level headings are actual problem statements. Spıke Ѧ 10:52 1-Aug-10

UnNews doesn't sufficiently resemble WikiNews

I dispute in the Newsroom that this is or should be a goal of UnNews, and that, if it is, that the page layout has to physically resemble that of WikiNews. Spıke Ѧ 10:52 1-Aug-10

my previous redesign (what we're using now aside from the recent additions) was a clone of wikinews as well - you're right in that this isn't some massive factor but I would say it is still a factor to some degree, and it also follows that given the number of people wikipedia/wikinews has they definitely have very good, clean layouts and on that basis, it's arguably a Good Thing to use them -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 11:02, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
Yes or no = {{compartmentalizing the different sub-widgets}} of UnNews for either a match or different look altogether.  Avast Matey!!! Happytimes are here!* Happytimes.gif (talk) (stalk) Π   ~ Xkey280 ~  03 Aug 2010 ~ 01:41 (UTC)

The article query mechanism is useless

Under Departments in {{NewsContinents}}, the article-by-continent links are useless; they produce an alphabetical list of headlines that, in many cases, is inadequate for the number of actual stories. Dittoes on past versions of the UnNews Audio "archive"--It listed the A's through the F's.

Gert5 found a tool using the <forum> tag. It produces a newest-first list of headlines that are links to stories. Chronologically (by creation date, which approximates the date of the underlying news) is the way you usually want to see it. But so far, there is no way to see more than the first page presented. I also quibble that inclusion of the creation time is nerdy, but Gert5 says this is the way it comes. Spıke Ѧ 10:52 1-Aug-10

Uh, you should use <DynamicPageList> forum is not a good idea. -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 11:03, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Please explain why, directly to Gert5, and together devise the best solution. Spıke Ѧ 11:07 1-Aug-10

well, we're on a forum, he can read this, if he doesn't know how to use DPL, Mediawiki have documentation. -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 14:04, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
I AM using DPL. For UnNews:Business and such. And Uncyc is actually using the third-party DPL, not WikiNews'. Forum is useful because you can browse pages. DPL is useful because it works on a creation basis. Merge the two. --Sir General Minister G5 FIYC UPotM [Y] #21 F@H KUN 09:31, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
Forum and DPL are mutually exclusive. You'll notice on your UnNews:Business page that changing the DPL and forum count to 20 displays only the most recent 20 articles on every single page. You cannot merge them. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 19:11 Aug 2 2010
That's because the "pages" are simply pages of nothing; to put it in context, if I were to insert a DPL at the top of the village dump, you could browse through the forum pages but it would not change what my DPL displays -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 19:15, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

It's hard to jump from text to audio

Thanks to {{UnNewsAudio}}, every story with an audio has a link to the audio. The first part of Gert5's work to go into production--the Listen tag on the list of recent news in the Uncyclopedia home page--now lets the reader select text or audio. However, it's still not possible to see, from the list of headlines on the UnNews Front Page or in the three stories featured on the Front Page or Specialty Indexes, that an audio exists; and having clicked on the audio or viewing the list of audios, it's impossible to go directly to the text version. Spıke Ѧ 10:52 1-Aug-10

I never thought this has ever been an issue to be honest, so long as they get linked right they should be fine -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 11:06, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
I would imagine that this would be something we could implement on the Beta Page, perhaps even automatically when audio versions are added, or something to manually add when the headlining articles are updated within their respective templates. Either way it's a good idea to have this. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 18:30 Aug 1 2010
Okay, so I've made it possible to add a link to the article itself in the Recent UnNews Audio section of our Beta Page. This should remedy part, if not all, of the problem; I see no reason to have redundancy in the recent articles section. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 19:58 Aug 1 2010
I might also like to add that the system is the same as the current one. Just putting that out there. I have such a big penis. Just putting that out there too. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 08:31 Aug 2 2010

"Redundancy" (having pointers to related content in several places) is not a problem, and having only one way to get somewhere is not a value. I've just edited {{Lead Article}} to put a link to an audio in a featured story (can't put it at the end of the headline); looks okay but we are heading in the direction where Zim won't have time for real work. EMC's modification of the recent-audios template exactly solves the problem; it further complicates the job of documenting one's work, but I'd happily do so. (I've already introduced the complications of file size and elapsed time.) Ideally, though, there would be a database of UnNews stories, "Has an audio" would be one field, and the system would just do the right thing when you do an audio, just as text stories already appear on the Front Page on the next Refresh, with further featuring up to Zim. Spıke Ѧ 12:45 2-Aug-10

Afterthoughts: (1) I am about the only Uncyclopedian on whom this new burden for advertising audios falls (also Zim, if he made the associated story a lead); (2) What could happen automagically if the creator of an audio for the story UnNews:x were required to name the audio File:x.mp3? Spıke Ѧ 12:56 2-Aug-10

"EMC's modification of the recent-audios template exactly solves the problem; it further complicates the job of documenting one's work, but I'd happily do so." I'm a bit confused by that, but forgive me because I just woke up. I didn't think redundancy was necessary in adding links to audio in in the Latest News section or on any of the headline articles' sections because that would defeat the purpose of having a Recent UnNews Audio section in the first place. I think I understand what you're saying here though. I'm just thinking of a way to implement it so that there's less work for everyone (though I don't think the current system of cascading templates is very difficult for the Recent UnNews Audio section; all you'd need to do is add one more bit of information, which is the raw article name). Something which would much more easily allow somebody to post from the UnNews Audio listing would be great. I'm discussing it with Ape and Oli and if we come up with something we'll let you know after it has been implemented. Any ideas are welcome. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 19:00 Aug 2 2010

It's a chore updating lists of headlines

The Front Page, on Refresh, rebuilds a chronological list of the week's headlines. Maintaining Specialty Indexes (like the Sports Page) has to be done manually. Gert5 proposes that more consistent use of [Category:Sports] etc. would enable the list to be done automatically. Spıke Ѧ 10:52 1-Aug-10

The Beta page solves this via DPL, the only thing to maintain is the lead articles, which is as it should be since they're supposed to be cherrypicked and inserted by users who know what they're doing -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 11:05, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
What Oli said. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 03:00 Aug 2 2010

The Nav Bar is ugly

I like it (surprise!). The colors of the tabs of the Nav Bar mimic the colors of the destination page. My Specialty Indexes use pastels--except that Oil Spill and Mel Gibson Meltdown are deliberately garish. Zim's feature sections are less subtle; I suspect he is French-Canadian and his home is the same way. Spıke Ѧ 10:52 1-Aug-10

I personally think it's ugly, but the sections themselves are great, over the next day or two I'm going to make beta versions of the sections and put their links in the yellow title bar so that it'll all flow nicely and be consistent across sections -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 11:06, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
I included our own version of the Nav Bar with softer colors (the box background colors on the respective portals) on our Beta Page, which would require little to no effort to change on the portals. We could in fact keep the current header that's used and simply have the current one as an alternative for all of the portal pages (because it just makes sense). Problem solved on this issue, unless there are any suggestions to improve or redesign the Nav Bar on our Beta Page. I do like Gert's as well, although I've a bit of an issue with the strong colors being too conflicting with the rest of the layout (even on Gert's main page design for UnNews) and putting the specialty sections on top in plain text. Any discussion about this is welcome. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 02:57 Aug 2 2010

Maintaining the chronological list of articles on Specialty Indexes is a chore, and currently is done manually, without the templates used on the Front Page. This could be automated through the use of Categories. However, archived indexes, such as UnNews:2010 Blockade of Gaza, want to display all relevant articles, but only in a given time-frame (perhaps achieved through more targeted categories). Featured articles on Specialty Pages, like those on the Front Page, involve editorial discretion. Spıke Ѧ 13:33 1-Aug-10

again, DPL, and a bit of messing around with categories to ensure exclusions for the stuff that shouldn't be listed. -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 14:05, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
Do it then fgt. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 19:04 Aug 2 2010

The current reforms aren't really reforms

A non-problem. Olipro claims nearby that the new rework is merely a tweaking of his design. Cheers to him that others found his code adaptable. Whether a change is done through rework or by starting over is the least of our concerns. Spıke Ѧ 10:52 1-Aug-10

they're not reforms at all, the reason for the new design is that it's been 4 years since the last major overhaul; Wikinews has vastly improved theirs, why shouldn't we reap the benefits? I also feel that the new design is very unlikely to change "the way we do business" - if anything it should reduce the workload as there's no need to maintain that template with the weekly dates any more. -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 11:09, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry; I (though only a six-month veteran of UnNews) am going to dispute your assertion that the lack of a major overhaul in 4 years is a problem at all. Spıke Ѧ 14:35 1-Aug-10

I didn't say it was a problem. I was saying, "why not have a redesign" -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 14:53, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Can you Add/Modify X

Just want to point out that we do need to have some set milestone, otherwise we are going to end up in a perpetual cycle of screwing around with it without ever actually putting it into production, I'm of the opinion that once the section pages have had beta versions made with the new layout, we can hold a vote on going live -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass)

You broke it! This Forum is to try to get clear problem statements, not for you to lobby for a quicker decision. Spıke Ѧ 14:35 1-Aug-10
if we were to hold a vote when things were broken, I wouldn't expect it to succeed in a vote and it wasn't what I did last time round. -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 14:45, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
Agreeing with Spike. All proposals should be examined first. No need to rush for voting as the most important thing is to keep up a supply of UnNews contributions as well. --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ® (Orate) 20:13, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
I do agree with a lot of these proposals, and I'm currently working on the Main Page Beta to address and remedy some of these issues. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 21:18 Aug 1 2010

Modified Section

The Religion section has been Beta-ised, go to the Main Page Beta and then visit the religion section for a taster of what the sections could look like. Also note, if the page doesn't look like the Beta Main Page does, hit Ctrl + F5 and your browser will reload everything which should fix the issue. -- Prof. Olipro Icons-flag-gb KUN (W)Anchor Op Bur. (Harass) 15:14, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

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