Forum:Forks in the road - Uncyclopedia moving from Wikia, a discussion

From Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
Forums: Index > Village Dump > Forks in the road - Uncyclopedia moving from Wikia, a discussion
Note: This topic has been unedited for 623 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.
Sodomites madonna and britney

This was the end of Sannse's answer to the topics being discussed at Forum:Are you blowing me? I think we need to have a clear forum so users can understand the title, not that they don't understand "Are you blowing me?" which probably kept some people from reading the forum. If you haven't read that one yet, please do so. Aleister 20:49 DecemberSolstice'12:

<copied text>
This page is a bit full and very off the original topic, so maybe we should start a new one? It seems the areas we should talk about are: is there anything I can do to help you stay? Is there any information I can give from my experiences of past forks about what to expect? What is and isn't OK if the fork goes ahead? And what the hell is up with EMC's name change and do I really have to call him Hotadmin4U?
So let me know if you want to talk here or make a new page, and I'll work out how to get Internets to continue the conversation as I try to get to England to pick up my pressies. -- sannse (talk) 19:41, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
<end of copied text>
Have a good trip to England. I don't personally care as much about the boobs as I do about the warning notice (which breaks the fourth wall on our entire premise of satirizing wikipedia) and the lack of an ad policy on the "new" uncyclopedia fork. Ads also break the fourth wall. Another major concern here is that Wikia never made a huge promotional push to publicize the site through press releases and interviews. We have a treasure, a major satirical site with thousands of quality articles, a site which has no ads and is a full-on satire of wikipedia. All of that is very newsworthy and just needs to be communicated. I don't like the fork either, but the warning label has broken the concept so much that an arrangement to do this was very predictable. How did that happen anyway? I heard some people complained that our page was being mistaken for theres. Was it corporations? Individuals? Why not just let it stay like it was, especially now with boobs - of all things - being banned like we're living in 1953. Enough for one post, thanks for the time to talk all of this out. I had no idea about the move either. Aleister 20:59 DecemberSolstice'12
I've copied my full message below. Hopefully that helps -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 21:40, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Forks make Auntie Sannse sad :(

<copied from Forum:Are you blowing me?>

Hi All,

First thing, I want to clear up a couple of misconceptions.

Aleister: the "wikia" censorship bars are not Wikia's idea. We asked for nude images to be removed or altered to meet our Terms of Use, but the styling isn't down to us (I think it was Hotadmin who decided to use our logo?)

TKF: you are never the least important part of my day. I wish I could get you in the Wikia offices to see that we are very normal people without Wikia tattooed on our foreheads, and we all really want Uncyclopedia and every other wiki we host to succeed. (We've met Uncyclopedians and survived before, and they put up with me... so I think it could work out.)

Lyrithya: Wikia's aims are for a strong, successful, and immensely popular site. I think those are compatible with your aims. Of course, there are areas where we feel the wiki needs to clean up, and you don't... but see below for more on that.

Zombiebarron: we very rarely ignore mail. The only ones we don't reply to are the ones that are ranting about how many peanuts you need to put in your ears to drive off the aliens. None of yours have ever fallen in that group, and we replied to all 13 of your messages to us in the last year - usually on the same day you sent them. If there were others we didn't get, or any future mail we don't reply to, please let me know. And, by the way, on this one I reserve the right to be grumpy and/or sarcastic when I next see you on IRC.

Also to Zombiebaron, and getting into the meat of this: We have not and will not take "horrific actions" on this wiki or any other that chooses to fork. We absolutely respect your right to fork, something that's always been a key part of the open source movement. That doesn't mean we like it when it happens of course, but it does mean we accept that it can and does happen.

The two areas we have had past conflict with forkers is in them trying to damage or control a wiki after they have left it, and in them trying to use the existing Wikia wiki to promote the fork - for example with sitenotices or mass talk page messages. We've gotten better at being clear on what's OK and not with these two areas over the years, so that everyone knows where we all stand. I'm happy to work with you to make sure there are no problems.

Of course, both as Wikia staff and as an Uncyclopedian (well, maybe an honorary one now that I've been inactive here so long) I'd rather you stayed. It sounds as though you are a long way along in organizing this, which possibly doesn't give us the time to talk that I'd have hoped for. I know that the current hot topics are the content warning and the removal of boobies. And then there are the longer term disagreements over the site URL, Wikia not providing Vector, and complaints about support levels (this is where I glare at Zombiebaron again). On the first two, we aren't totally happy with the solution either, and have been talking about alternatives for this and for other wikis with more adult themes. One idea, that I'm hoping will go ahead in the New Year, is to create a new grouping specifically for these wikis. I don't know exactly what it would look like, and it might still have some sort of gateway, but it would certainly allow the nude pics back. We want to talk to key community members from this and other "mature" wikis to work out what will work.

On thing I want to make sure is clear - if you do fork, this wiki will remain open and available. People who want to stay, and those who find the wiki in the future, will become this wiki's new community and choose admins and policies for themselves. One of the problems we have seen on other wikis is people trying to control the existing wiki, or even to change it so that it competes less with their new one. As I said, we respect your right to fork, but not to control and wiki you are leaving. This bit is me using my firm voice, which is like my normal voice, but not quite as girly-sounding

It sounds as though you (or some of you) are pretty determined to go ahead with this, but I'd still like a chance to persuade you otherwise. Of course, timing is everything, and I'm about to travel to England and be all Christmassy and stuff. But this is obviously a conversation that needs to happen soon, so I'll try to make myself as available as possible.

This page is a bit full and very off the original topic, so maybe we should start a new one? It seems the areas we should talk about are: is there anything I can do to help you stay? Is there any information I can give from my experiences of past forks about what to expect? What is and isn't OK if the fork goes ahead? And what the hell is up with EMC's name change and do I really have to call him Hotadmin4U?

So let me know if you want to talk here or make a new page, and I'll work out how to get Internets to continue the conversation as I try to get to England to pick up my pressies. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 19:41, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

<end copied text>

Just addressing what you directly said to me: I like you Sannse, but you're the only Wikian I know. It ain't a bad human face for the company to have. And of course companies are made of human faces. But companies are not human. They are carefully planned, driven, and inherently limiting. Now, I'm not going to be a fifty-six year old hippy and say that I want this fork because "comedy" doesn't belong in a "machine." But lately, the drives of Wikia have directly opposed the drive of Uncyclopedia in a way that has crippled the latter like it hasn't been crippled before (imagine a baby born with seven legs, never properly adapting into society, never making friends in school, suddenly gets polio and loses function in all of them, so the doctor has to saw them all off but there is a problem and he goes blind and deaf too oh and he has schizophrenia: when that boy inevitably shits his pants, then that is Uncyclopedia's community right now). Until someone blinks, I doubt this community will ever rise above 13 consistently voting users ever again. As much as I have lost my will to commit to this site, I still have a terrible and embarrassing personal connection, fostered by seven years of learning to write good and three point five almost-real-life friends, so I would not like to see this site perish into obscurity. Basically, I would just like to see more writers, and each step that Wikia occasionally makes into this community (which gradually kills itself over and over again, anyway) it only takes away each time. Just once, it would be nice to see a positive change implemented. Getting rid of the content warning is an easy first step; I can't think of a second because of, uh, the lack of commitment lately that's made me mostly an outsider to this whole process. So I guess I'm spectating on this mostly. Just don't fuck it up, everybody. --Littleboyonly TKFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK Oldmanonly 10:22, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
EMC created and switched to using Hotadmin4u69 when Wikia locked 90% of our users out of their accounts for 3 days. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 20:02, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
TKF: I'd definitely like to see positive changed implemented, although I'm not sure exactly what they would be (outside of the content warning issue). I'll talk some more about this below, but I'd say we need two things: Uncyclopedians willing to actually work with Wikia directly as representatives of the community, and a community that's willing to consider those changes.
Zombiebaron: I don't know of the problem you mention, it might have been while I was away. But if we messed up with accounts, I'm sorry - both personally for not being around to help, and on behalf of Wikia. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 00:12, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
sannse, I see what you're getting at, but Wikia's aims for a marketable farm, and the current approach means using consistent styles, themes, and practices across projects. Part of this manifests in things such as the content warning and the domain, but much of it is also in the platform itself - the Wikia skin, the commenting systems, and the general software with all of the tweaks Wikia has made. But this platform is simply not what Uncyclopedia uses - it's contrary to our entire premise. Sure, we are afforded some latitude in that we can use MonoBook and have most of the usual gadgets disabled, but MonoBook without those gadgets is just plain not supported from a technical standpoint and indeed has been deprecated for quite awhile now. Trying to support it at this point would be rather silly as well, as splitting developer resources in such a fashion would just result in a crappier main product, when that is where your strengths lie.
And frankly, MonoBook ain't even what we should be using anyway. Wikipedia has been on Vector for years, with its own particular extensions to make that more effective, and yet despite it being free software from developers who would be more than happy to help us set it up ourselves, we can only try to mimic it since it's just plain not available to us due to being on Wikia. And while trying to mimic actual, tested, working software on top of a different and already unstable platform may be somewhat fun from a hacking challenge perspective, it's just not viable in the long term, nor ought it ever be done in production.
As it is, we are moving. Too much has been invested already to just stop, and for good reason, though that reason is, as RAHB says below, more lots of little reasons than anything in particular. Given Wikia's practice, this fork will remain, broken though it may be, and we expect no help on that front. And indeed, some may wish to remain with it on Wikia; all we can do is appeal to our greater community to support us in this venture to be ourselves - to stay together, stay classy, keep writing, and make the best of the tools available. We just want the right tools to actually be available, as decided not by what Wikia is willing to do, but by what the community agrees it wants. -— Lyrithya 01:34, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Another header to properly break things up, so as everybody can see the opening message without getting confused of all the stuff probably about to come. And because, as Modus has found in the past, there doesn't appear to be a limit on how long the headers can be, which is nice.

The unfortunate thing is that, normal people or not, we've given Wikia a number of chances to show us how much they care about our community and want us to stay, by making our stances on issues such as these quite candidly known numerous times. I personally rarely send Wikia any direct correspondence, so I can't speak to the responsiveness to things such as e-mail. I do know that you sannse, have been an excellent messenger between the two parties, and nobody ever seems to come away scratching their head. But the positions themselves that Wikia take, we've declared them terribly illogical, bad for our site's traffic, and at times just plain unfair. Wikia typically refuse to make any concessions or compromises on these issues, despite our clearest protests. Now, I can't be sure who or when the decision was made to look into this idea of making a group of "adult content" websites hosted by Wikia, but I find it strange it now comes up after we've been openly talking about an actual planned move for about a week. I believe that Wikia are not the huge faceless mega-corporation employing immigrant children in iron smelting foundries ten feet underground at their global headquarters, and that they are closer along the lines of a few people huddled around some computers in an office or two, who have to deal with the same day-to-day things all of us do, and probably go through their share of coffee in a day, but it doesn't change the fact that they've shown little interest at all in what we, the community, think is for the best of Uncyclopedia, the wiki that our userbase has spent, as Aleister says, tens of thousand of man hours building, fixing, tweaking, and enjoying. And as long as there are any significant number of us remaining here, we aim to continue to work on this wiki to try to bring it to the highest level of excellence that we can agree upon, because we greatly care for it. I've spent a pathetically large portion of the last five and a half years of my life trying to help this site strive for that excellence, building meaningful relationships with people around the world who share my interest in that vision, and refuse to remain with a host who can't negotiate an inch on the issues that us, the builders of this website, think are of the utmost importance, until the actual moment we make our intentions to move known, in which instance, after six and a half(ish) years of turning a blind eye, they finally decide to concede that "we're thinking about maybe making it okay for a couple of sites. Let us know if you'd like to talk about it." Quite frankly, I am done with that. I understand that Wikia want to go their own way and they have every right to do so. I continue to wish the company good luck and fortune, further successes, and a bigger office with a nicer coffee pot. Perhaps even a couple extra in the break-room, in case one's being used all the time. But we, as a living community, are going to need our independence in order to develop this website the way we so choose, because we've been snubbed in the past and will be snubbed again. In terms of individual issues, they've all been rather mild in my view, excepting the two most recent with the censoring and content warning, but those are signs of what's to come, I believe. I refuse to let this website be molded any way other than that which the community agrees on, and that is where the faceless mega-corporation view often comes in, because that sort of thing is reminiscent of one.

And, I must add, that as much as I do care for this community, I cannot say that I speak on their entire behalf, and that these are just my views that I'm sure sure some of our community does agree with. If any of our community wish to try to negotiate with Wikia, or would prefer we stick with them, I would encourage them to speak up and do what you feel is best for us. These words are my own, but I say them because I am speaking for what I believe is the best interest of our community. -RAHB 00:19, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

I am encouraged by Sannse's willingness to participate in our discussions as regards recent changes. I think what concerns people who are involved here on a daily basis is what is Wikia's vision for this website? We know what they don't like so what keeps them attached to Uncyclopedia?? --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 11:31, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
And why are we so neglected by them? I mean, I am incredibly grateful for them hosting us, and would really prefer we grew and thrived right in our current home rather than fork out and have some brainwashed robots of the evil Wikia take over. But the declining userbase, on-and-off activity and everything has troubled me ever since I began visiting this site on a regular basis. I want us to be this big-ticket, widely known and acclaimed comedy website, but Wikia haven't really shared that interest all that much, have they? They're more comfortable reaping more profitable and less controversial options, such as the Glee wiki. All I ask is, please give us all a chance. Make us famous, we need you for that! And maybe our more ambitious admins may not want to fork after all, if we can truly love each other. --Lord Scofield Stark 14:04, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
So it seems like what some of us want is 1) No warning page (have you seen this this fine outstanding wikipedia page, with no warning sign), 2) that idea about adult content being okay on some of your wiki's, 3) make the site famous, and myself and others would be glad to help with press releases and other outreaches, and 4) no ads beyond your bottom-ads for other wiki's (no side or in-content ads). Wait, Festivus is almost upon us. Aleister 14:29 22 Festivus-eve'12
RAHB, I'm not sure what I can say to help mend what's obviously a chasm between you (and others here) and Wikia, but I would really like to get you sat down with that coffee pot to work out how we could. Actually there are two coffee pots, so maybe we could have one each. Although that would sorta make the talking bit tricky.
Scofield: I can certainly answer part of "why are we so neglected by them" - because there is no way in hell that Uncyclopedians would have ever accepted the vast majority of the things we have done to build up Glee. We learned long ago that it's better to leave Uncyclopedia alone as much as possible, and that we are not going to get happy response to any new features or new ideas we present. Of course, if that is something that might change in the future, we would be happy bunnys. (or "bunnies"? whatever, I blame the bad spelling on Airport WiFi)
Aleister: To be blunt, I would say that whether this wiki forks or not, you will need to consider the practicalities of Internet hosting. Ads are a reality of hosting these days, unless you are the 6th biggest site in the world with the ability to get grants from the UN and support from Bono... you are likely to need ads to pay for hosting at some point. The rest of what you ask for is more realistic (although I dunno about the "famous" part, that might be as unlikely as the ad thing) -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 00:32, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
I personally believe that at this point we're simply two entities trying to go in entirely different directions, but I'm not averse to discussion. -RAHB 03:39, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
Sannse, did you read all of my posts here and at the other forum? I sincerely believe that with our history and the quality of the site we can get donations from established comedians, like-minded people with money, etc. And we can become "famous", for the material is there, the pyramid is built. So placing advertisements within the content, alongside the content, or above the content, ruins the site imnho. Destroys what we are. This goes for this site or the proposed new move. Please tell us exactly what it costs Wikia to host this website,k down to the dollar, and let's see what we're working with. Thanks. Aleister 13:46 Festivus Boxing Day '12
Yes, I read your posts on both forums, and I'm afraid I still say that I don't believe your ideas are practical (and I think those planning to fork would agree with me on this one). If they were, Cracked and The Onion would be ad free. Of course, this wiki has survived without ads for some time, but that's because Wikia has absorbed the costs of keeping the site online.
As to what exactly those costs are, I don't have those numbers and suspect that it's not possible to isolate one site in that way. It also wouldn't necessarily be useful to do so - there is probably a big difference between the costs of hosting one site, and the costs of hosting the same site along with a vast number of others -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 14:36, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
The key point for getting funding from established comedians (Hollywood types, older comics who are retired or just tired, others of like mind) is the premise: We are a satire of wikipedia, and in many cases do the job better. To put ads into that premise destroys it, both here and on this new site being talked about. The Onion and Cracked have made their sites into the yellow pages, and they don't seem to care. A pristine website, especially if the premise calls for pristine, will float on its own prinipled format. I'd be happy to help, please have someone from Wikia email me on this. It can be done, if done right. People organizing the new site too, let's do it. The first one to go to ads on the page lets the terrorists win. Aleister 15:03 same day
Aleister, I would love nothing more than if you could actually get these celebrity donations you keep talking so much about. Nobody wants ads, they are just a reality of life (nothing is free, not even web hosting). So please please please get us all this free Hollywood money you keep talking about. I am waiting patiently for my Uncyclopedia office and salary. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 19:52, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
I'd love to work on this, as a project of a few or a lot of people. What is needed is the exact cost of the servers for a year (or five), an estimate for public relations (i.e. make as known through ads, press kits, journalistic contacts, money to take jounrlaists to lunch - ummmm, Indian food)) and how much money we'd like to spend on an office, contact phone, etc. But everything will be on hold until the new year rears its ugly head. Aleister 21:46 24decemb12
Let's start with a goal of one million dollars. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 04:42, December 27, 2012 (UTC)
Two million dollars! --Littleboyonly TKFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK Oldmanonly 04:33, January 2, 2013 (UTC)
Ask a serious question...come on, how much do the servers cost a year? Al 18:32 2-1-'13
A billion dollars. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 20:33, January 2, 2013 (UTC)
Why haven't you emailed me yet Aleister? --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 20:45 Jan 2 2013
Let's assume a server runs $150 a month, including extra IPs, a hardware IPS and a backup database server. That'd be $1800 a year, not including the cost of administrating it, which we're going to be doing on our own time, for free. That doesn't even take into account when somebody uploads a shell to the server through an unpatched vulnerability and roots it, and we have to nuke it and rebuild it. ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usThu, Jan 3 '13 4:43 (UTC)

A different perspective might be of value

I stumbled across Uncyclopedia less than a month ago. The way the site is now is all I've ever known, and nothing about how the place is run has in any way discouraged me from writing. The adult content warning didnt stop me from exploring the site. If I had stumbled across it a year ago I would have started submitting stuff then. From what I gather the main problem people are most concerned about is that the number of active writers has declined from its peak back in the 'good old days', however long ago that was. I have two suggestions, the first one is obvious, and I suspect the second one wouldn't be very popular.

1. A little advertising of the sites existence wouldn't hurt. You'd attract more writers, of course. But then how do you keep them once they're here?

2. Raise the standards a little. Don't accept just anything. If something isn't funny, reject it. Quality writers might not want to contribute their material to a site where it gets drowned out by a bunch of crap. It should mean something when your work is accepted. Right now, there's just way too much unfunny, poorly written material. Me personally, I don't care. I just like to write and see my work up on the monitor. As long as I can continue doing that I don't particularly care what others are doing. But other writers who find this place (or the new place) in the future might not feel that way. The popularity of this site depends on the quality of the comedy presented here. Raise the standards and popularity will increase.

My two noobish cents. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bill Melater (talk • contribs)

Woops, forgot to sign. --Bill Melater (talk) 21:08, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

The "raise the standards" debate is an age-old one, my friend. One where even I have been flip-flopping. --Lord Scofield Stark 18:41, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
Bill, you're absolutely right about the second part. Also, I'm glad you didn't get chased off by the content warning. As for the first part... well, we haven't got any money. :D  ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usSat, Dec 22 '12 19:07 (UTC)
Guys, I have some thoughts, but its late here in the Great White North, I'll be back in the morning. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bill Melater (talk • contribs)
Not allot can be done about no money for advertising, but raising standards doesn't cost a thing, and would eventually have the result of attracting money, as well as talent. Hey, have a merry UnChristmas everybody. If you see Santa, tell the fucker I'm still waiting for my Big Wheel. --Bill Melater (talk) 04:30, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Christmas lights in London

Enjoy the lights on Regent Street and Oxford Road. I think they are the most beautiful lights in all of Europe at Christmas time. I assume you will not, however, enjoy the cold aching wet bitter cracking deathly rain that will freeze your face off in London (if that's where you'll be). But those lovely Christmas lights, and the Queen's yearly Christmas address and prezzies and yorkshire puddings will make up for it...no Sanse? :) --ShabiDOO 02:02, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

We can have a Yorkshire pudding all year round Shabi. I think you meant Christmas pudding which is very different and only made/sold around this time. It can be made of summer fruits and suet and you have to set it on fire before you eat it as burnt alcohol gives it that extra zing! --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 07:04, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
Better still is to set it on fire for long enough that you don't have to eat it. And then burn the remains just to be sure. Give me mince pies and custard any day. Or especially this day... I'm in England now, Clacton-on-sea to be exact, and I'm right next to my mother's mince pies. Which, of course, I'm not allowed yet. Apparently "they are for Christmas", and my argument that Christmas Eve is the same thing are going nowhere. Dammit. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 14:41, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
From San Franny to Clacton. Well...it has its attractions Sannse. Didn't know you were a TOWIE! --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 21:00, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
My british family actually posted me a Christmas pudding and I will try to find some victims friends to eat it up for me as I am quite content with a quarter of a slice. It certainly is colourful though! I would have loved a couple trays of yorkshire puddings...though I doubt they would have survived the trip --ShabiDOO 18:58, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
Oh my mother's Yorkshire puddings... they were worth the trip alone. Srsly, with her gravy, and a bit of mint sauce... that's it! I'm moving back to England. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 21:35, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

We will have to meet Demand.

I'm sure we can sell this site to Demand Media Inc. as a Wiki version of Cracked.com. Or to The Onion. I mean, we really need to find a new site if Wikia doesn't submit to our demands. GiratinaOriginForme |Si Plebius Dato' (Sir) Joe ang Aussie CUN|IC Kill 800px-Flag of the Philippines svg | 07:07, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think you missed the big memo, Joe. We have a server (actually, we evidently have three, but I'm not sure as to what the availability of the other two is at the moment) set to host us and we'll be managing it ourselves. We currently have the funds to sustain it for a while, and are working on getting all the technical aspects together. Those other ones actually would probably be a good idea otherwise. But what we're looking for at the moment is true independence to have our own website on our own terms, which self-hosting will be the only route to realistically. -RAHB 08:44, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
Advertising will be a good shot in the long run. We plan to develop an Uncyclopedian community on deviantART, to showcase our own art as well as to advertise Uncyclopedia to the world. Kinda like the groups for those who live or originate from a country (e.g. I'm a member of a Filipino deviantART group and an Australian one). This site will help propel Uncyc upwards. GiratinaOriginForme |Si Plebius Dato' (Sir) Joe ang Aussie CUN|IC Kill 800px-Flag of the Philippines svg | 09:52, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
Imagine that admins receive money to pay for hosting. Great, but the master Chronarion is gone, which means that the successor will have to be admins who are willing to save this website. GiratinaOriginForme |Si Plebius Dato' (Sir) Joe ang Aussie CUN|IC Kill 800px-Flag of the Philippines svg | 09:59, December 24, 2012 (UTC)
I...I really don't understand a thing you're talking about sometimes, Joe. But that's okay, I find it quite charming. And only slightly arousing. -RAHB 22:35, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

tl;dr?

just saying. ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) Icons-flag-au 08:26, December 25, 2012 (UTC)

I read it, and I disagree. I don't think it was long enough. So here's my two cents: I'd consider contributing some time to the fork provided that the new management is willing to e-mail me a password to my User:Hyperbole account, which Wikia has refused to do since it apparently violates corporate policy. Tinymasaru.gifpillow talk 11:03, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
Talk to Zombiebaron, you're in. ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usWed, Dec 26 '12 11:19 (UTC)
Rad. It always bothered me that Wikia wouldn't do that for me. It's like.. Jesus Christ, half a dozen Uncyclopedians are my Facebook friends, they know my voice, we've talked on the phone, I hired one of them to do actual work for actual money, *I can establish that I am not hijacking someone's account*. And Wikia's just like: Nope! Don't give a fuck that you've written two novels worth of content for this site; no exceptions! You'd think I wouldn't still be pissed off about that after like three years, but I am. Tinymasaru.gifpillow talk 11:24, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
Does not compute. Wikia-bot unable to decipher "friends". Cannot authenticate without proper code. Shutting down...bwoooooorp. ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usWed, Dec 26 '12 11:38 (UTC)
I promise I'm not a bot. I do occasionally say "bwoooooorp", true, but I prefer not to discuss the details of my private life on here. Hyperbole, I'm sorry we weren't able to sort your old account for you. Perhaps we are over-cautious in that, but without an email address to verify ownership, the risk of screwing up even further by giving your account to EMC (sorry "HotAdminForSomeoneOtherThanMe") was the bigger worry. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 21:35, January 1, 2013 (UTC)
Hey Hyperbole I just spoke with Lyrithya about recovering your password. While we cannot recover your password, we can "recreate" your account. It will have the same contributions and userpage and everything, except you will have to redo your preferences. Should take less than 20 minutes with the help of IRC. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 01:06, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
Help on IRC? Are you using some other channel? Sir Modusoperandi Boinc! 03:13, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
I think its spelt "tl:dr" in British English...as the semicolon isn't used in civilized writing. That would explain all of the confusion per what you were "just saying" Frosty. --ShabiDOO 07:28, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, in British English ("Bringlish"), they don't use the semicolon or the colon, at least since King Edward and Lord Nelson discovered the supercolon during an Emu hunt in the colony in India. Seriously: Supercolon. Sir Modusoperandi Boinc! 13:11, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
The semicolon is actually one of my favorite characters to use. But I guess I'm old fashioned. A (Fallen Reich)15:50 31 December 2012
You are the most oldfashioned teenager on the internet :) --ShabiDOO 18:05, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
I'm 24....are the 20's the new teens or something? A (Fallen Reich)18:45 31 December 2012
You're 24? Can you buy us beer? Sir Modusoperandi Boinc! 23:38, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

I leave for one month. ONE MONTH. Why does all the exciting stuff happen while I'm gone? ~jcm 01:12, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Because your absence forces us to think of radical new ways to improve the wiki? Yeah, you're that awesome. ; ) Sir SockySexy girls Mermaid with dolphin Tired Marilyn Monroe (talk) (stalk)Magnemite Icons-flag-be GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 17:14, 2 January 2013

Back in the US of A (guitar riff)

So I'm home, although not exactly here - it's possible that I just slept about 56 hours in the last 48, and somehow I'm still lagged. But I'm back in the office tomorrow, so give me time to find my desk, catch up a bit, and talk to colleagues, and I'll be fully back into this conversation. Finding my desk is the hard bit of course... Last time I was this jet lagged I ended up on the wrong floor and walked into the Wired office instead. Personally, I think that led to some of their best articles, but perhaps the one about how the Commodore 64 was the laptop for 2004 could have used a grammar check -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 21:35, January 1, 2013 (UTC)

Hurray! Sir SockySexy girls Mermaid with dolphin Tired Marilyn Monroe (talk) (stalk)Magnemite Icons-flag-be GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 17:17, 2 January 2013

Leaving

I'm not sure that I will. It's a difficult thing to say considering the general feeling in this forum but from the very first day I discovered Uncyclopedia right up until now there have only been two occasions where wikia have cocked things up for me. I'm not particularly technically minded insofar as the wiki is concerned so have had little cause to speak to anybody at wikia about the skin the wiki uses or anything beyond minor queries about range blocking, sockpuppeting and mass deletion. In all these cases I have found wikia staff to be obliging and helpful in their interactions with me. The only thing that really concerns me is that wikia makes changes to the wiki without discussion with us beforehand.

However, my prime objection is that I do not think a move will ultimately benefit the site, I edit here because I liked the community, because the people here make me laugh and because I enjoy contributing to a larger project, not because it was a popular and well trafficked site. It saddens me that the announcement today of people moving to Uncyclopedia.co is along the lines of "Hey the wiki is moving, you can stay if you want but all your friends will be gone and it'd be pretty pointless".

I do not feel Uncyclopedia has "lost" if we do not become a household name or increase our traffic to match that of Cracked.com, I've been happy contributing to and maintaining the site during its highs where we have had lots of active users and at its lows where we have not. I feel moving to the new domain will do nothing more than split the community, people will still come here and the absence of the majority of the admins and the active users will result in this wiki falling into disrepair. I say this because Wikia will keep this wiki open, they won't redirect traffic to the new site, this site will remain Uncyclopedia.

The content warnings do not and have not bothered me, the changes wikia have made to the wiki throughout my time here have bothered me slightly but not unduly, what does bother me is the loss of a community that I feel I have become a part of. I wish the new site and those going there all the best and nobody will be happier than me if Uncyclopedia.co goes on to become hugely successful and even Dr. Skullthumper cannot say the wiki is declining, I'd probably even drop by to help on Pee Review.

I echo RAHB's thoughts in general but I cannot support the suggested alternative. I dislike being the dissenting voice and if someone has a reason that would change my mind then I'd be the first over to the new site, I just feel that this decision is akin to the idea of the Uncyclopedia store; our target audience lacks the interest. The majority of people come here for the funnies, they do not come here for us or what we do, they might stay for that but it's not why they come initially.

I would be happy were this site to become a redirect to the new one, but as it is I feel this move will simply create two communities, both working independently to do what we would be better doing together. --ChiefjusticePS3 09:30, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to respond just by saying that I agree with your point about Uncyclopedia not having "lost" if we're not a big ticket item or a tremendous internet hot-spot. I've disliked that notion for a very long time and I don't think that we should be looking at Uncyclopedia in terms of how profitable it should or can be, but as how fun and stimulating it can be for the users and community in the here and now, as it being just what it is and nothing more. That's how the site has existed for a very long time and I'd hope that it will continue on that path in whichever form or forms that it takes in the future, but I understand that there are many who believe we should be making profit and getting increased traffic as our main goal. There's going to need to be a little more of that in the "new" Uncyclopedia as well to pay for hosting and the like, which is unfortunate but I've accepted as a reality. I also plan to keep my account at the Wikia version active after I've moved to the new version, if for nothing else than to be able to respond to questions from people seeking administrative help and to inform new users that Uncyclopedia has another version now existing. I can't really speak to the rest. I feel like this is certainly a risk, in many ways including technical, and it's going to be an experiment through and through, but I don't mind being a part of that experiment. I can't say why I don't mind that, really, other than my statements above, but I do know that after this all transpires, Uncyclopedia, to me at least, will still be what it is and nothing more, and will be something I'll enjoy at its face value, and at the face value of the interactions I take place in, whether with one community or the other or both. It will exist in some sort of combination of incarnations (as it already does incidentally, with a few of our users having taken to editing carlb's mirror version, although that's really not the same sort of situation I guess), and it will simply be. And I will be involved, and you will be involved, and the select group of users that always come back after having been gone, or stay for years on end, will be involved. Somehow, it will still be Uncyclopedia. I know that's not very persuasive, but I guess what I'm trying to do right now is not to persuade anyway. I think that everybody should do what they want to do. If that means staying here, good. If that means moving to the new Uncyc, good. It will be what it will be, and it will also be what we make it. And as long as that includes the "pursuit of happiness", I can be satisfied with everyone going whichever way they so choose, because they've chosen it
That was coherent, right? -RAHB 10:01, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
Well, Chief Justice and I may be the only other ones still editing this site. Even though he claims I'm gay. The way my questions have been treated by the group moving, the mocking by froggy because I insist on no ads, my offer to help with obtaining funding to keep us ad free and to up our public relations (both answered with silence or mocking from the people organizing this, except for Lythira or whatever the name is), and just the general attitude of "We're in control and no one else has any say" makes me concerned about what will happen. This site right here will be where people will come from search-engine traffic for a long long time - they have the ability to up the count to bring people here. And when they start with huge ads I'll be gone from here too, so I hope the other site works and works well, and things occur which will make it a more inclusive atmosphere than it has been here the past several weeks. Aleister 11:53 3-1-'13
You did see my preliminary answer on the costs, up above, right? ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usThu, Jan 3 '13 13:05 (UTC)
No, I didn't see that, I had tried and just got mocking answers (although I don't recall the email thing, apologies if I missed something). And nooooooo, are you joking? That's all it will cost? That can't be right, all this fuss over a fucking $1,800 plus a year???? Why didn't anyone say so earlier. Is that right? We can go without ads for two-thousand and some change?Aleister 13:13 3-1-'13 I did it, I hit on all 13's, whoo whoo
Dude, if $1800 is nothing for you, ante up. Seriously though, that number is probably a vast oversimplification. There's not just a server; there are also things like SSL certificates (probably a few hundred dollars for wild-card certs for > a year), backup servers, extra bandwidth, etc., etc. And nobody working on the project has that kind of money. ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usThu, Jan 3 '13 13:39 (UTC)
Jeez, that's all I was asking, a good round figure for all that stuff. No, I don't have the money now, but may at some point in the next year or so and will be ante up at that point. Some people here probably have some funding if they only knew how little it will cost. I was under the impression, being a non-computer guy, that it was in the tens of thousands. And we should spend tens of thousands for advertising an "ad free fuckers" site, both in straight-up ads and in public relations which I do know a lot about. Scrooge McAleister later
I forgot to mention domain registry, which was probably several hundred more... I don't have the exact figures. If you get money for advertising, hey, dude, that's what we need. ~ BB ~ (T) Icons-flag-usThu, Jan 3 '13 14:02 (UTC)
Doesn't anyone besides me remember what our premise is, the reason we exist, and the entire joke, let alone the uniqueness of what we are - a wikipedia satire site. And they have no ads. That's why I ask the "cabal" (and yes there is) to not sign any long-term contracts for ads, and let's get rid of any ads (hopefully only below the content) as quickly as money is collected. I think those are very reasonable requests. Aleister
I'm with Alfred on this one. I hate big, gawdy ads, as they fuck up my caveman dial-up connection. And, frankly, I don't see why we need to bring money into this. Uncyclopedia is meant for fun. The only reason I can think of is the fact that I know at least one user who quit because she realized she was funny enough to get paid.
Moving away from Wikia should be about one thing only: Dignity. Also, giving a sweet middle finger to King Jimmy Wales just for laughs. -- Kip > Talk Works Puzzle Potato Dry Brush CUN Icons-flag-us 14:50, Jan. 3, 2013
Aleister, I have said this before and I will say it again. When I joined the site in 2005 we had ads. You can't tell me you are the only person who remembers "the reason we exist, and the entire joke" because frankly you are wrong. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 15:33, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
It shouldn't have had ads in 2005, that was just Chronium or whatever making money, and we found out he was in it for the money. No ads, please. If the cost of running it is anywhere as low as BB said we have no need of ads. And then there's what Puppy says below. "Frankly, you are wrong", a good place to be in this case. And Puppy and Zana and almost everyone else should be totally welcomed and everyone set for a new start. Aleister 15:40 3-1-'13
Nobody thinks the site should have ads. As numerous people have already told you, we are patiently awaiting your donations Aleister. Please email Hotadmin. Complaining about ads ad nauseam will get us literally nowhere. Zana has been banned forever and will certainly not be welcome on the new site (the same goes for all other banned users). -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 16:18, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
I haven't looked at my emails in my "Aleister" name in the last few days, and we're not talking about individual donations but the direction of the new site. I looked into the Zana banning and it was totally unwarranted, I proved it was unwarranted, and it was allowed to stand. I would hope with a new site comes a new start for lots of things, including having cooler heads involved in banning well-established users. Al 16:34 3-1-'13
As a minor point relating to the advertising on the new site. The content hosted on Wikia has been added under NC-BY-CC-SA 2.0 (that thingy just below the edit box). That means that content currently hosted here can't be ported over to the new site if the new site is going to be generating advertising income, and the new site cannot include advertising if the content from here is ported over. Mediawiki also has limitations on attribution on images imported to the site. (At least with older version of MW. I'm not 100% about the newer versions never having tried to test them myself.) This means you'll either have to create a new site sans content, or be prepared to remove existing content when advertising is introduced. This also means that any content created by editing existing content will have to be thoroughly examined to ensure that it is new enough that infringment of the NC-BY-CC-SA issues will not come to the fore. I have no idea exactly what you are planning to move over to the new site - obviously what you have created as an individual you have every right to move into a site that generates advertising revenue. (I might point out that some of these are the same issues that members of the community here have used to label the "evil carlb hosted" mirror as "illegal".)
Of course, if the bulk of the community goes over to a new site, I may be tempted to come back here. So, bon voyage.                               Puppy's talk page02:10 03 Jan
"Having ads" would not necessarily mean "for profit". Ads should be introduced only to cover the costs of the site, if at all. So that the site could still be considered "non-commercial" and therefore meet the requirements for a NC license. NaturalBornKieler (talk) Germany Flag 1 16:00, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
Adding a "for profit" with income distributed to writers would add a kilo-ton of legal problems that would make the universe implode. We'd all have to agree to a terms of use that was fifty paragraphs long, and the community would rip each other to shreds in no time as per who got what for what. If the profit is only reinvested in the website and a modest amount donated to tournament winners, I don't think that will change the website in any way than it is now. So in that sense, I don't see how "for profit" is an issue of any importance. Chief is right, however, in that focusing too much on "site mechanics" and "adds" and "autonomy" takes away from what is most important to a lot of users including myself which is "having a fun time hanging out and working creative humour writing with you guys electronically and all that other gay stuff". --ShabiDOO 16:59, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
I prefer to stay here which, though it has faults, has a tangible management structure and procedures. I wish all those who go with the new one, the best of British. You may need it. --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 17:54, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
Wikia is for-profit as well. I assure you this is not an issue. -— Lyrithya 18:29, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
Wikia is for profit, but the content that was supplied was supplied under an NC-BY-CC-SA licence. Which means it cannot be taken from here to be used in a commercial enterprise. Unless you are registering the site as being run by a strictly NFP organisation, and are opening up the organisational finances to public scrutiny, then you're breaking the NC aspect. Also you have to ensure that the BY aspect is taken into consideration. That means every account that has been created here must have an exact duplicate account over there, or you open up the possibility of having someone else registering using an existing account name, and that causes the issue with attribution. You also are going to have the difficulty in assuring that the images uploaded here that are ported over to there reflect that they have come from this site directly, and that this site is the progenitor of your content, or the attribution stuff goes out the window. Or - in short - take all the arguments that you and ZB have been using for the mirror site, and direct that at this new site, but add in the joyful aspect of potential commercialism as well. Otherwise anyone could take every article that we have done and port it over to a profit making site, but cry "NFP" the entire time, which makes a mockery of the NC-BY-CC-SA licence.                               Puppy's talk page10:35 03 Jan
Puppy, we are doing exactly that. Nobody is profiting off of this. Any money earned through merchandise, potential ads, or donations goes directly back to the community, and transparency on these issues is a given. By that we are remaining non-profit and not violating the license. Additionally, since we have brought over every account, attribution will not be a problem in the slightest. And we don't need to show that the content originated from the uncyclopedia.wikia.com domain because the license is held by the users who upload or publish content, not by Wikia. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 23:00 Jan 3 2013
Weren't we moving for the sake of being able to focus on the "fun" aspect? As opposed to wondering what horribly arbitrary and community-antagonizing decisions Wikia will make next? Sir SockySexy girls Mermaid with dolphin Tired Marilyn Monroe (talk) (stalk)Magnemite Icons-flag-be GUN SotM UotM PMotM UotY PotM WotM 18:00, 3 January 2013
Yes. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 18:09, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
The leaving is as much about what Wikia hasn't done and indeed what they cannot reasonably do for any project as much as what they have to us specifically. What we want is to focus on Uncyclopedia specifically - to support a strong central community, because from the community comes the comedy, and that means giving them a site that works in their browsers even if they are using IE or Camino or Opera, and giving them a platform where they can do what they want and take their projects in new directions or even just write unfettered by anything beyond community and legal standards, and give them the support they need to draw in new readers. If we provide it, the readers will come - our own advertising and press releases will see to that - so it only falls to the rest of folks to make it the best they can. And for the most part that would just mean coming along and being you. That really goes for the lot of you - you guys are amazing, really, and I wouldn't be doing any of this if I felt otherwise. -— Lyrithya 18:29, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
One of the biggest benefit of moving, as I see it, is the fact that we will have access to a bunch of sexy new tools for doing site maintenance. They should allow admins to complete their day to day tasks with much more ease and elegance, and leave more time for fun and games. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 18:37, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
Who are the admins on this new site? How was that decided?? --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 19:01, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
The same as they are one the current one. All we did was move the site to a new URL. We're not changing anything. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 19:09 Jan 3 2013
To clarify - the only changes will be technical, and organisational on a level above the site itself. We will be on a new server and URL, using a newer version of the MediaWiki software with perhaps slightly different extensions installed, and using a different skin - the real Vector, in all its IE5.5+ compatible glory. A to-be-created Uncyclomedia will take the place of Wikia, handling legal, financial, technical, and other crap nobody around here really cares about. The site itself, however, will remain in control of itself as it is now, as will all Uncyclomedia-hosted sites. -— Lyrithya 19:20, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
Will Aimsplode be selected for the dictator for life position? --ShabiDOO 20:33, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
We can only pray. -RAHB 21:01, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
TKF. Can you unban Aleister? Also, I have no interest in being an admin on the new site as this was a decision made for me by others without agreement. Like indeed, this entire process. --LaurelsRomArtus*Imperator ITRA (Orate) ® 22:22, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
I believe there's been a lot of agreement, by a lot of the community. People have been griping about this for months, nay, years. A day doesn't go by anymore without someone mentioning that "we need to move the hell away from Wikia, already." We are trying to satisfy the thoughts of the majority of the community and readership. You're perfectly welcome to disagree, but accusations of totalitarianism, which I'm also sick to death of, are a little much. Stay or go, just do whatever will amount in less fucking griping all the time. Jesus. -RAHB 22:33, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
Romartus, if you had come on IRC at any point during the "don't talk about the move on the site but talk about it all the time on IRC" phase of the move, we would have included you the moment you signed on. There was a need for secrecy and I'm sorry that meant that some people didn't get included in what was essentially a long boring process. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 22:35, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
It was, indeed, a very long and very boring process. Also, no. Aleister thought the correct way to react to a very clearly over-the-top joke at the expense of this whole agonizing process and no one in particular was to flip the fuck out on not one, not two, but three count 'em three pages (to my knowledge). One week is too generous. --Littleboyonly TKFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK Oldmanonly 00:58, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

I guess I'm mostly un-lagged now, and it's time for another extra long heading because I didn't know it was possible to do this either, but think we need to get down to practicalities and stuff

(Is there even a limit?)

Anyway.

So what I really want to be doing right now, is trying to persuade everyone here that Uncyclopedia doesn't need to fork, and that while Wikia and Uncyclopedia have had a somewhat turbulent relationship through the years, that's not something that is impossible to improve on, or a reason to split this community.

But I think it's obvious that this fork is going to happen. There are soon going to be two Uncyclopedias (or three, if you count Carlb's mirror) and those two sites are going to have to either work out how to coexist, or develop really good ignoring skills.

There are two main areas where we've seen problems when other wikis have forked. The first is if those leaving try to use the existing wiki to redirect people to their new site, and the second is in them wanting to change the existing wiki to make the two sites less similar (which usually involves damaging or diminishing the older wiki in some way). If we can avoid those two problems, then I believe we can make this a smooth transition.

There was an example of the first problem when RAHB said that he wants to stick around to tell new users about the new version. I'm sorry RAHB, but that wouldn't be fair to the wiki or its remaining community. Imagine if Carlb came here to leave a message for every new user: "Come and edit on the mirror instead!" - I think the only question would be who would ban him first. That's the direct equivalent of you leaving messages about the fork. You can advertise and publicize the new wiki in any way of course, but not on Wikia.

The other problem cropped up when Lytheria mentioned the idea of this becoming a "Simple Uncyclopedia". Lytheria, you are welcome to create a simple Uncyc, but the future of this wiki has to be in the hands of those who choose to stay, and the future community.

One final thing I want to say for now: Wikis can and do survive forks. Going right back to the Great Spanish Wikipedia Forking of 1832, forks happen and wikis survive (OK, maybe it wasn't 1832... but don't make me go look it up, k?). The key is those that choose to stay, and those that join the wiki after the fork.

I'm going to be immensely sad to see this wiki fork, and to see people I respect and like moving on (and Hotadmin too). But I want to do my best to help and am very willing to talk to those staying about how Wikia and I can do that. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 00:15, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Just to be clear: Will I be allowed to remain a bureaucrat on the Wikia site? I plan to remain active on both sites. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 00:24, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
I didn't mean to infer that I'd necessarily be "advertising" the fork or trying to recruit anybody, but I'd think I'd be able to at least, for example, answer any questions people have relating to the nature of the fork, seeing as overtime it will obviously be something that will come to people's attention and they'll be curious about (unless we do manage to develop really good ignoring skills, of course). Mostly I'd just be trying to help out new users, whether they choose to join this version or the other or both, particularly considering there will assumedly be not much of a community here to take care of those sorts of things for a decent amount of time before a new community comes in and becomes a part of this one, as you say. -RAHB 00:28, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Zombiebaron: In the past, we've had problems with people moving to a new fork, but also staying and trying to influence the direction of the wiki they have left. We haven't removed rights from them in those cases, unless they have tried to harm the wiki or use it to promote their own, but there can be a serious conflict of interest in trying to run what will become two competing wikis. I've not yet seen anyone successfully manage that.
But all in all, it's up to the remaining community to decide whether you keep your rights here.
That kinda goes for RAHB too - if you are leaving, you can't try and manage this wiki too. So new users on this wiki are no longer your responsibility, they are for the people who choose to stay to look after.
Actually, the conflict of interest is shown in the sitenotice. Two admins have said they are staying on this wiki, other admins and users haven't said either way yet... but the notice says the wiki is moving. This wiki is staying here, some of its admins and contributors are moving. Please can you fix the notice to make that clear. Thanks -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 00:41, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
You mention a conflict of interest, and I would like to make a request of my own regarding another apparent conflict. Sannse, you have been Wikia's liaison to Uncyclopedia for many years now and are clearly very attached to this project - this has been to our mutual benefit in many cases, but here I would question if it is not doing more harm than good, as I would question if you are truly capable of acting in a neutral capacity with Wikia's best interests in mind. If there is such a thing as formality in a situation such as this, I would like to formally request that you step away from this and find another uninvolved community support staffer to take this case.
As it is, unless Wikia's policy regarding moves has changed considerably in the past two years, much of what you describe here directly contradicts what was done when other projects I have worked with left Wikia. Discussing this matter with the community is most certainly not something to be dismissed as advertisement, for instance, and claiming that we cannot announce our intent and put up notices for the duration of the move, given the consensus backing it, is also rather surprising, given how normal a practice that is. So please, consider stepping out of this one. -— Lyrithya 00:54, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Lyrithya, as I'm speaking on behalf of Wikia here, my emotional attachment to Uncyclopedia can only be in your favor. It's for Wikia to decide whether that strong attachment affects my ability to speak with their best interests in mind. At the moment they feel that I can talk to you with both this wiki and Wikia's needs in mind, and I'm happy to have the chance to do so. Of course, I will pass on your request anyway.
Discussing a fork with the community is not considered to an advert, but putting the new site's link in the sitenotice most certainly is. I'm not sure which forks you have seen, but we have definitely not allowed that in other cases. We allow a link to a discussion (although, of course, a public discussion in advance didn't really happen in this case) and that discussion can include a link to the new site. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 01:09, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Actually, I'm not really sure where to post these, but these are the basic guidelines we have used for other forks:
  • Please do not link to your new wiki on the main page of the Wikia version. It's Ok to link to a FAQ or blog post that discusses the change and links to the new wiki. This will be taken down sometime after the move date to allow the new/remaining community to start recovering.
  • Please make sure that any messaging (including on the main page) clearly says that people have a choice to move with you or to stay.
  • Please do not spam user's talk pages with messages about the fork. We look on this just as you would if someone came to the wiki today and started leaving mass messages about their site on talk pages.
  • Please do not try to delete pages or otherwise damage the content. The wiki should be left intact and available for any future editors to use.
This doesn't cover all possibilities of course, so we would like to discuss anything not covered by these guidelines in advance. But this gives the outline for fork notices and covers the most common areas -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 01:15, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
My experience has been otherwise - your attachment makes you more hesitant around the place, and you tend to dismiss us out of hand as uncyclopedians instead of hearing things out or considering alternatives. In some cases you have flat out told us that requests that would be perfectly reasonable on other wikis were just not viable according to Wikia policy (and we believed you, since you ever were our go-to person on Wikia policy). In at least one case, as I recall, a request you had dismissed previously was immediately granted when I went and asked someone else - I think that may have been the Nuke extension? Useful tool, and not nearly as big a risk as some of the js tools we have, but you just said 'no' to that as you have to so many other things, and without any good reason.
Based on this experience, I would say that my request is not one that is contrary to Wikia's interests and thus regardless of what you may personally wish for this project, I would urge you to seriously consider my request. -— Lyrithya 01:28, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
I've passed all your comments directly to my manager.
In the mean time, perhaps we could go back to the sitenotice. It's currently misleading, and the link to the new site is not OK. Please can you fix it. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 01:40, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, and sort of done, and undone, and redone, and I don't even know what's going on anymore. -— Lyrithya 02:09, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Welcome to Uncyclopedia ;)
I've not re-removed the link, because I really don't want an edit war tonight (or ever, let's change the world to be edit war free and full of roses and harmonious rainbows), but it does need to be removed. Just as with a link to the new wiki directly on the main page, a link in the sitenotice (and so on every page) is considered an advertisement for the new site. And while we're OK with discussion about the new site, we aren't OK with you using Wikia to advertise it. -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 03:13, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Links to the new wiki are normally allowed both on the mainpage and in the sitenotice for the duration of the move. Why the change now? -— Lyrithya 00:10, January 5, 2013 (UTC)
I don't know where you got that impression from Lyrithya, that's not our policy. There's an example of me writing about this back in November 2011 here. As you can see, I used basically the same text then as now (that wiki is on the Wikia skin, so I didn't specifically mention sitenotices there). I doubt this is the earliest example, but it was one I remembered well enough to find quickly -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 02:22, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Spike is staying

Large corporations have their benefits. Wikia has given us access to instant, worldwide publication at no cost, in exchange for which we contribute authoring at no pay. With respect to the gripes aired so far:

  • The skinning problem is a routine day in corporate life: the corporation prefers to integrate our product with its other products over maximal adherence to our own stylistic goal of imitating Wikipedia. It requires compromise, and Wikia has exempted us from many of the impositions on their other wikis.
  • The policy problems, such as lack of flexibility on user names, ditto. I too would prefer that my name not be in all capitals (user "Spike" logged on in 2006 and has never edited) but it is a solution.
  • Periodic outages are an inevitable result of running servers in the real world and periodically adopting new versions of MediaWiki. Outages will certainly be worse under a small proprietorship and remedy will be more problematic.
  • The Wikia censorship brouhaha is simply something that even the new management will have to deal with if it runs a popular website in the lawsuit-happy USA. Covering nipples is trivial; the problem is what to do when black separatists, gay-rights groups, and anti-defamation leagues complain about our sense of humor. It costs money to hire a Sannse to research "community standards," but much more to hire a lawyer if you should be sued for violating them. There was never a case against Toyota's gas pedals but they settled for billions.
  • Regarding the inattention of Wikia personnel: Boo hoo.

Aleister's disdain for advertising is not worth discussing. Aleister is laboring under the delusion that his work is inherently worth money, solely because he says it is, even though he has been contributing it for free for years, and that it must not be viewed alongside ads, while we wait for that Sugar Daddy to walk through the door with a perpetual endowment for our playground. He thinks that, as a self-proclaimed artist, he is entitled to a platform regardless of its costs.

The spokespeople for the fork tell us that a month ago was A Time For Secrecy but now is A Time For Unanimity. Zombiebaron assures us that certain users will remain perma-banned, as a result of an unspecified process, so unspecified that I will surely be banned as a result of the same caprice with which I have been banned in the past. Froggy signifies nearby that he will continue to deal with any disagreement with ridicule. The promise of democratic governance is already as hollow as every time on Uncyclopedia that push has come to shove: Votes are rigged, moved, struck through, and voters are banned for "disruption."

Wikia, like the British who governed Hong Kong, may occasionally be autocratic but don't play favorites. Wikia's only personal interest in me is that I contribute material, whereas several of the principals of this fork have indicated that they want me to develop a more obedient attitude. On the alternate site, they will achieve the ultimate raise: from admins and bureaucrats to, essentially, owners, able to take their football until I go home. The fork is the ultimate expression of the emphasis on bossing people around rather than writing funny stuff. A critical mass of mature admins and able contributors is staying with Wikia, and so will I. Spıke ¬ 00:56 4-Jan-13

Hooray! Spike is staying! --Littleboyonly TKFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK Oldmanonly 01:07, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Corporate benefits can be gained easily and surpassed just as easily - a domain gets us on air, and an ad campaign get links to us, as much as Wikia does and more as indeed they seem to prefer to instead to cover it up; a server from a reliable hosting company gets us security - it's just a matter of knowing what to get. Communication may have been lacking, but part of the blame for that lies with me - a month ago I don't think any of us truly believed it could be done. Then we got a new server, and in the past few weeks we set that up, and only this weekend did I come close to finishing the scripts that would get the site itself, and suddenly we are where we are after all, acting on the general murmurs of dissent that have so long plagued these forums.
Meantime Uncyclopedians will be Uncyclopedians, but that won't change unless the cease to be Uncyclopedians (Illogicopedia proved, after all, that that can actually be a very good thing, at least in my view). If you ask where the bans on the new server come from, it is the same place as where the page protection settings and the user permissions will come from - we are importing that directly from this wiki to the other. I am uncertain, however, what critical mass this is of which you speak, but I hope you will see this is nothing more than a change of scenery and change you minds. -— Lyrithya 01:17, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Any plans to unban the admins of the Dutch uncyclopedia over here? I recall that one of them was blocked for no other reason than having suggested the site should move to a non-Wikia server. Carlb (talk) 01:24, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
As I understand the two cases I saw, the issue wasn't what they were saying, but how. CartoonistHenning has since been unblocked, but while he tried to get the other guy unblocked as well, said other guy didn't seem inclined to properly repent for something about violating whatever rule it is we have that doesn't involve being funny. Generally speaking, folks can say whatever they want, really, it's just a matter of how and why they say it and how much they say it. Saying that I like cabbage, for instance, could get me banned if I repeated it too much...
Anyway, I doubt we'd have trouble unbanning the other guy if he could demonstrate in some fashion that he's not apt to make an arse of himself again. Even just saying as much quasiconvincingly might be enough. -— Lyrithya 01:43, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah the last time I spoke with DG we had a 6 hour argument about why I should unban him on Uncyclopedia so that he would give me back my ops on UnMeta. Then he ragequit UnMeta and I haven't seen him since. I don't think we are unbanning him any time soon. -- Brigadier General Sir Zombiebaron 01:51, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

One quick question

If Uncyclopedia is moving to another site, does that mean I'll have to bring all my stuff with me, or will it already be there when it moves (e.g. will I have to recreate all my articles, photos, etc. when all is said and done)? Welcome to the machine MATTHLOCK 01:10, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

It will all be brought over, login information included. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 01:15 Jan 4 2013
Log-in information included, eh? All right... Although it is about time I change my password (I've been on this site for almost a year and a half and haven't changed my password once.) Welcome to the machine MATTHLOCK 01:18, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
The Wikimedia Foundation recently forked (what's left of) Wikitravel to create Wikivoyage. The content was brought over, but matching users on WMF to users on the old site had to be done manually as they don't have the original userlist.
Wikivoyage's situation has some strong parallels to our own in that they were an independent website before one of the original founders sold them out to Internet Brands in 2006, with immediate backlash from the community. They don't have our non-commercial license, but they did establish an organisation "Wikivoyage e.V." in Germany which operated a fork until everything moved to Wikimedia in 2012. Carlb (talk) 01:22, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Just to be clear, Matthlock, we don't give out your login information to anyone. There are a couple of ways that forking sites verify account ownership (I don't know which Lyrithya is using) but they do not involve Wikia giving access to your password (as I understand it, we don't have access to the plain password either, some techy stuff that prevents that). -- sannse@Wikia (talk) 01:27, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Such techy stuff is easily circumvented. -— Lyrithya 01:31, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Well, I mean, if you have database access, it's a relatively simple... I should just shut up now. -— Lyrithya 01:43, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
Actually, there was one instance in which a wiki did transfer user information from Wikia to a non-Wikia site. A wiki on "spanking art" was allowed to keep its userlist as Wikia wanted the wiki gone. Carlb (talk) 01:39, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Comment from Cartoonist

First of all my best wishes for 2013. I know I got banned for heating up a debate about the same matter, but please allow me to give my opinion on this anyway. I'm not here to represent anyone, these are just my words. Neither I'm here to convince this community.

  • In my view this move was quite inevitable, seen the unhealthy internal circumstances and the lack of service from Wikia in general (1. saying no to every constructive request in order to have more efficient control over maintenance; 2. not responding to any request from various users about changing the interwiki table; 3. not responding to my requests to close a copy of an existing independent non-commercial wiki). The list is not all-inclusive. We already have a separate wiki dedicated to that. You also gain back your sovereignty which is good for the humour policy. It's all about the content, isn't it?
  • Regardless the relationship Wikia-UnclePete, I'm a bit surprised that there hasn't been an earlier vote on this. I noticed that there is a broad consensus among the dramatis personæ (admins + actively involved debaters) that things aren't going flawlessly. Many users will steadfastly leave the Wikia version anyway and the following won't bring a change in their plans, but what about a poll or so? Just to indicate the popularity of the move.
  • The new Uncyclopedia will offer a lot of international opportunities which are relevant for the projects I'm active on. Interwikis are restored in their honour and the 100% non-commercial aspect (not being part of a for-profit company) will invite more "foreign" people to set up interlingual projects.

So far my opion on this. I wish everyone joining the newly created uncyc the very best. Regards | Cartoonist | You're nuts? Don't worry... Me too! | 03:56, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Personal tools
projects