Forum:An announcement from your friendly neighbourhood Poopsmith

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Note: This topic has been unedited for 3687 days. It is considered archived - the discussion is over. Do not add to unless it really needs a response.

Hello all. Happy Friday the Thirteenth - I hope you're all wearing your bad-luck-repellent. Anyway, to celebrate the some-number-of-months, -possibly-fractional anniversary of me becoming Poopsmith, I've decided to launch a new service. Half the credit goes to Mordillo, who mentioned a day or two ago on my talk page that he and other non-VFD regulars were having trouble finding a space to nominate pages there, what with the ferocious rate at which articles are added up to the limit of 15. This is a shame, because I'm sure the average user comes across a lot of pages that are pure rubbish and then finds she (who am I kidding) HE can't nominate them because he'll get banned if he does.

So I'm introducing: The Poopsmith's Lounge, as a subpage of my userspace. It'll have a QVFD-like list format, but instead of flagging things for immediate deletion it will flag them as possibilities for VFDing. Since it's not an official Uncyc page I shall treat it as an extension of my own list of things to VFD, and add them to the main voting page in the same way I always have (i.e. trying not to hog the place too much!)

The hitch: VFD regulars are NOT allowed to add to the Lounge list. This includes all those who come back every day (or every hour in some cases!) to vote on things and will find an empty space with a little patience. Most of you have your own to-do lists, many of them are longer than your arms, and I don't have time to put up voting boxes for all of them. You are welcome to steal things from the Lounge to VFD, but be aware that since this is basically my list, I'll feel free to add or delete entries as I see fit.

At the moment, the service is on trial - if I get too much rubbish or things that should have been ICUed or QVFDed, I'll have to rethink. Meanwhile, comments, questions, suggestions or random wibbling are welcome below. --Strange (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 00:27, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

This was a good idea. --Lt. High Gen. Grue The Few The Proud, The Marines 00:39, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I FUCKING LOVE IT. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 00:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Methinks SbU is planning for her inevitable sysopping. But srsly, I like the idea.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 01:41, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I knew someone would say that. Seriously it is just a coincidence that the idea came along now (like I said, blame Mordillo), although I guess it can't do my case any harm, can it? --Strange (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 09:45, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
SbU for Admin!-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 20:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Great idea, as per HGG, EMC, and Ljlego. P.M., WotM, & GUN, Sir Led Balloon Baloon(Tick Tock) (Contribs) 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Bad, bad, bad idea. We alredy have a deleting lounge, it's called VFD. What you are suggesting is to add a limbo. Please not another office, not more unnecesary burocracy. This reminds me of the tale from kafka's trial, where the simple peasant waits his whole life to approach justice, but he is always denied by the goalkeeper (well, an exagerated comparision, but who are you to quetion my chain of assosiations?). Free the peasants, let us get in to the court with no more restrictions. Take the limit from 15 to 30. If we don't have enough available judges, just hure more, they work for free anyway.---Asteroid B612B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 16:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
By the way, we need to switch the old courthouse format to a forum-like one, just like the new shiny VFH.---Asteroid B612B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 16:50, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Rataube is such a convincing speaker. If only he knew how to pronounce "nuclear". Anyways, I agree with him and rescind my earlier statement about fucking loving this idea. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 17:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
/me takes deep, calming breath. I have thought long and hard about this, and perhaps if you read the Lounge page or the VFD link it would help explain. The lounge is not somewhere articles have to go to get onto VFD. If you do not like the lounge you can ignore it completely. It only exists to help catch the people who come to VFD, see it is full, and say "Fuck it, I can't be bothered to tell them about this page containing nothing but the word penis repeated five-hundred times that I've found deep in the bowels of Uncyc." It is currently on trial itself - we will see whether it works. If Uncyc explodes into a million pieces some time early next week, you can all blame me. --Strange (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 21:08, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Isn't it just a lot easier to take down the 15 votes restrictions?---Asteroid B612B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 00:09, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
No. VFD's 15 article limit limits VFD to 15 articles. More just slows it down. Sir Modusoperandi Boinc! 03:53, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Now we just need a shiny badge for the new service. Something with poo as the main concept....~Jewriken.GIF 22:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I am for this, because it is quick and simple and SbU will take the flak for the articles that are huffed. Just kidding. Strong for anyway. Pieface 08:18, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey Pieface - thanks for being the first person to use it! --Strange (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 08:32, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Pfft. We don't need no stinking lounge. We don't need more bureaucracy dumped on us. Besides, I already have my own personal VFD checklist here. --General Insineratehymn 14:00, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I just love it when you make your fellow uncyclopedians feel all warm and fuzzy about their initiatives. ~Jewriken.GIF 14:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Uh, the lounge suggested is pretty much exactly what you have in your userspace, but for everyone to use. Where's the bureaucracy?
I think it's a Good Idea. Spang talk 03:51, 14 Jul 2007
What's a poopsmith, exactly? I remember hearing the term before, but only once. Conniving 16:29, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Poopsmith is the scientific name for the Strange but untrue, an animal found running wild in the outback of <insert country where from is SbU here>. Also, for.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 16:47, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
...that doesn't help much. Conniving 17:31, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Strange but untrue is our Poopsmith, and removes and archives utter crap in QVFD and VFD. I think. --Lt. High Gen. Grue The Few The Proud, The Marines 17:36, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
That's what I was saying, buddy! Poopsmith is SbU. And yes, HGG is right as to what she does. VFD, not QVFD (no archives there).-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 17:37, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
QVFD does have archives. And I've seen SbU do some poopsmithing there too. --Lt. High Gen. Grue The Few The Proud, The Marines 17:45, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Bah, humbug. /me furiously continues linkifying his article so he can move it to the main.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 18:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I was kinda wondering about that myself. Does that mean that SbU has her own huffmaster2000? Or does she just wield some nameless authority that I know nothing of because it doesn't exist? P.M., WotM, & GUN, Sir Led Balloon Baloon(Tick Tock) (Contribs) 21:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

So in summation...

This is a VFD waiting list. So, the 15 limit on the VFD restricts users from submitting crappy articles to it sometimes. Big deal. I don't see it as being a problem necessitating a waiting list. The VFD isn't backed up like America's health care system. If I come across a crappy article and I can't submit it to the VFD (lest I wish to be banned), then I write it down using Notepad. It's much simpler and less bureaucratic than having to submit it to a subpage. It'd be a good idea if this were actually a problem, but it's not, so it isn't. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 23:34, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

But you don't have to use it. If you don't like it, don't use it, and absolutely nothing changes for you. Also, you don't have to put up with people complaining at you to clear vfd all the time. Spang talk 12:17, 15 Jul 2007
I don't quite understand the whole "bureaucracy" accusation, as this is neither required nor being forced upon us. Bureaucratic would be implementing this lounge as a mandatory quality-check before the real VFD makes it. It's something completely optional that I think should be implemented, as I know that I've run into this problem before.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 00:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Then I'll explain. If it works, in practice, this could become the only way to post at vfd for simple mortals. SbU could fill the empty spaces at VFD before most of us, so VFD will be always closed if it isn't through her or through similar lounges.---Asteroid B612B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 02:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
But remember also that flooding is taboo. Also, right now, you sound something like Rangeley with his constant complaints about the wiki in general. While you make a valid point, your alarmist attitude is rather lost on me. People are always so quick to assume "Oh holy shit this thing's going to fucking blow up big time" when, more likely, this thing will do nothing of the sort. Strange but Untrue is someone I trust enough not to be a bastard (or bitch, in her case) and flood VFD all the time. What I'd be more worried about is Insineratehymn's possession of a list.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 02:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I understand it's an optional option (hm?) which I won't use, but I'm still questioning how well it will work, okay Spang? As for the rest of you, pay careful attention. I don't see how this will be effective. Sure, it may sound appealing to anyone who has had frustrations with submitting to the VFD (like I have), but it's not the easy-fix for the VFD's problems. The problem with VFD isn't so much the frustration that users have with submitting to the VFD (which is what a lounge solves), but the lack of deletion productivity that 15 articles at a time creates which causes this frustration. No matter how many lounges (waiting lists) you have for VFD submissions, nothing is really going to move forward unless we increase the VFD's rate of deletion, which is what needs to be fixed. If it isn't fixed, then we'll start seeing these proposed lounges grow exponentially very soon which will inevitably cause their own problems and difficulties as well (and will only lead to further back up in the system). Basically, I'm looking at what brings about the frustration of users who try to submit to the VFD and can't, and what might make these "lounges" seem like a good idea: the lack of productivity in the VFD. Lounges cannot and will not fix that. We need to look into alternatives to improve the performance of the VFD, preferably ones that do not require annoying waiting lists or lounges, because waiting lists are a sign that something in the system just doesn't work. So, stop with the lounges and fix the real fucking problem. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 03:04, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
In other words, fix what's causing the frustration (VFD's productivity), rather than fixing the frustration with waiting lists. --Hotadmin4u69 [TALK] 03:09, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Ljlego: With the kafka comment I was being overly-dramatic just for fun. It has nothing to do with SbU or Ihymn being bitches trustworthy, that's just predictable result of any specific people gathering lists of articles waiting for VFD. I don't forsee a scenario of waiting lounges for waiting lounges for waiting lounges (and so on) for VFD, but this first lounge is alredy a bad idea. A complicated solution for a simple problem. There's no reason to be afraid of the flooding in the first place. I understund VFD can't be unlimited, but it seems to me it has arrived to the level when we should rise that limit.---Asteroid B612B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 03:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Also I agree with emc. But without the cursing, replace that with obscure literary references to dystopic scenarios.---Asteroid B612B612 (aka Rataube) - Ñ 03:22, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Whoo, I'm kind of glad I was away this weekend...

Firstly to those who are wondering, poopsmithery does indeed involve archiving VFD, but only when admins have already deleted/kept pages and have forgotten to do it themselves. (Which I'm quite sure no-one does on purpose... ;-) ) I cheekily extended the job myself to doing an archive of QVFD when it was getting unbearably long, and moved some uncaught stuff on there to the top at the same time. I do not have huffing powers, at least not yet...

I'm now not quite sure what the naysayers did actually read before coming to their conclusions. Even in the first post on this page I said that I'd make sure not to hog VFD with lounge entries. And I also mentioned that Emc, Insineratehymn and other VFD regulars were actually not allowed to add to the list as I know they have their own lists which are far too long and would back the place up. I don't anticipate getting huge numbers of entries on this list (hence the suggestively weekly subheading in the lounge) and if I get too many to cope with I will be shutting it down myself, or at least (though this is a new idea not mentioned anywhere so far and might be a bit redundant if I did it) shutting it down for a while so I can catch things up a bit. We've had six articles listed in about three days which means two articles per day if I'd been here to do them. So far, I think that's not bad. Also, you have to remember I'm the conservative (i.e. "keepy") VFD voter. I haven't had chance to look at these things yet what with being away, so you might find I actually decide to weed out some of them as being funny.

Once again, this is my list I'm inviting people to add to. To look at it another way, I'm balancing the fact that I don't go out deliberately looking for cruft much, by inviting the average user to be my eyes, ears and typing fingers to help me find some! As far as I'm concerned, that's not so much bureaucracy as a kind of two-way favour we're doing each other. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but I don't see any danger inherent in the idea of trying it out to see if it does. --Strange (but) Untrue  Whhhy?Whut?How? *Back from the dead* 17:13, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree.-Sir Ljlego, GUN VFH FIYC WotM SG WHotM PWotM AotM EGAEDM ANotM + (Talk) 17:15, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
So far, it works for me. No mess, no fuss. Pieface 19:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
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